A little disappointed with the N2

Topics around mechanical design, controller and electronics. Mods & hacks welcome.
photoholic
Posts: 32
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2017 2:58 pm

A little disappointed with the N2

Postby photoholic » Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:19 am

Hi Raise3D-Team

well actually I like my N2 but there are a few things I want to address here that are "no gos" imho. I mean seriously... if I buy a printer for over 3000 bucks I don't want to spend the first two weeks printing parts for itself so it may finally work without flaws!

Here is my list... probably already mentioned by others but: Little strokes fell big oakes

- The extruder with fix pressure is just ridiculous (even the Prusa MK2 for 600$ has got a spring btw.) > just ordered my Bontech but that's something that HAS to be changed in the future models

- You have to implement an automatic z-adustment system or at least a more feasible bed leveling mechanism. Turning 1000 screws is no fun at all. And yes it's written all over: The bed is factory leveled... but if I read through the forum and other 3D-printing sites I'm pretty sure more than half of all customer had to level it... otherwise they are printing with rafts all the time. If you want to send a machine from China to the US or Europe it has to be cast iron so nothing won't deform or move

- End-Switches are sooo incredibly cheap I can't believe it! What happens if the z-end breaks? I don't want to imagine.

- The spoolholder is a joke (I went with this one: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1729239)

- There should be an Emergency stop (guess that's implementet with the not one)... because of my non-level-bed the nozzle scratched deep into my buildtak and I couldn't stop it immediately... had to watch till the end of cycle :(

- The toplid needs some sort of struts or pillars

- The camera-interface isn't described anywhere... absolutely useless like this...

- Final checkup is not good enough... mine came with a rattling bearing (the bed was unlevel OVER 1mm front to back btw.... not sure it it was level ever)... have to wait till my supplier will exchange it

Well I guess that should be enough to keep you guys busy the next few hours ;)

And hey... no hard feelings...

Greetings

John

http://www.johnwilhelm.ch/single-post/2 ... -addictive
Last edited by photoholic on Tue Apr 11, 2017 1:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

socke
Posts: 212
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2016 2:55 pm

Re: A little disappointed with the N2

Postby socke » Tue Apr 11, 2017 12:22 pm

100% agree. It's similar to what I've already wrote approximately one year ago. And I could write some more points...
Btw., very, very nice website!

User avatar
walshlg
Posts: 1235
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2016 12:01 pm

Re: A little disappointed with the N2

Postby walshlg » Tue Apr 11, 2017 4:44 pm

another thing I recently had to deal with - the thermocouple wires are way too short for the left extruder and the printed plastic face that covers the extruder controller board is may to small to fit the additional capacitors so I had to "modify" it

User avatar
Vicky@Raise3D
Posts: 2178
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 3:54 am

Re: A little disappointed with the N2

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Wed Apr 12, 2017 6:04 am

Hi John,

So first, I want to thank for your choosing our product and all the commends from your side. All have been well noted on my side.

Here are some want to confirm more with you:
- Spool holder
Can you please advise more about that?
Do you mean the filament on it cannot move freely or its size is limited the spool size?

- Emergency stop
If you meet an urgent problem and want to stop the print immediately, please shoot the back main power switch. It can cut off the power immediately.
What's more, you can enable Faststop function in screen settings, which will stop the print much faster than normal.

- No need to be worry about the entstop switch. We provide warranty and even when it is out of warranty, you can order from your supplier side for this.

- Camera interface
Camera is currently testing sample now. Will release more information about that nearly.

- Bed leveling
We promise every machine assembled in our factory has done at least 100 hours' test, which including a big size flat to check whether it can print over 300mm.
And before packaging, we will do one more final leveling check with glass and buildtak inside this machine with dial indicator.

photoholic
Posts: 32
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2017 2:58 pm

Re: A little disappointed with the N2

Postby photoholic » Wed Apr 12, 2017 6:41 am

thanks a lot for the answer...

- the spool holder is a cheap solution. some spools with bigger holes are askew and scratch the plexi door, others squeek... so check the thingiverse file I've provided above... if you would implement that in factory users would be very happy I'm sure... just printed two of them for mine and it works soo soo smooth and great

- good to hear about the warranty concerning the endstops... I'm still wondering, what will happen to the bed and nozzles with the bed driving up without endstop. Won't there be a great damage to anything?

- great to hear about the cam. Important: It has to be possible to access the image from anywhere in the web not only from the local network... a working app would be cool in which I can register my Raise3Ds, see the control panel and switch to the attached camera for a live view

- bed leveling: I believe you but it's of little use all those final checks and endurance testing if the frame or parts move during transport. I guess a fix bed leveling is an illusion... better implement an easy to handle solution for customers (best would be autoleveling but a software-assisted manual solution would be appreciated also I'm sure)

- Emergency stop: Okay good to know... btw.: The power switch on the back is a very very very bad idea ;)

Best wishes and thanks again for the fast reply... I absolutely believe in Raise3D... I'm pretty sure: a few changes to the design, a little more power into the marketing devision ;) and Raise3D could take the marketlead worldwide in 3D printing eeeasily...

John

lami3d
Posts: 217
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2016 7:40 am
Location: Marseille - France

Re: A little disappointed with the N2

Postby lami3d » Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:37 am

It's good that limit switch are under warranty but if one of them breaks during using, i think you explode the perpendicular rod !
And that's what we're afraid of....

Photoholic, concerning, the spool holder, what infill did you use ? (i would like to print them the faster i can and if it's possible to have less than 100% infill...). I'm going to 20% except for the tube (100%). Tx for your answer

photoholic
Posts: 32
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2017 2:58 pm

Re: A little disappointed with the N2

Postby photoholic » Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:48 am

I printed with 20% for everything... worked just perfect

lami3d
Posts: 217
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2016 7:40 am
Location: Marseille - France

Re: A little disappointed with the N2

Postby lami3d » Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:49 am

Tx !

photoholic
Posts: 32
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2017 2:58 pm

Re: A little disappointed with the N2

Postby photoholic » Wed Apr 12, 2017 9:01 am

@vicky: can you tell us: what will happen, if the z-stop does not work while the bed is moving up?

User avatar
Vicky@Raise3D
Posts: 2178
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 3:54 am

Re: A little disappointed with the N2

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Wed Apr 12, 2017 9:26 am

It has a logic as following, the movement will stop when the printer finds that it has already finished the longest it can move.
Which means, if it is a N2's Z direction, the max movement is 305mm. If the printer finds that it has already moved 305mm in Z, it will stop moving immediately.
But this may do harm to the hardware. If in Z direction, the nozzle may crash the build plate which may damage the hotend, buildtak and glass.

User avatar
Vicky@Raise3D
Posts: 2178
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 3:54 am

Re: A little disappointed with the N2

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Wed Apr 12, 2017 9:39 am

Camera is under developing currently, we may still release the local one first. Online camera is also on our future list. But maybe a little later.

photoholic
Posts: 32
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2017 2:58 pm

Re: A little disappointed with the N2

Postby photoholic » Wed Apr 12, 2017 9:44 am

Vicky@Raise3D wrote:It has a logic as following, the movement will stop when the printer finds that it has already finished the longest it can move.
Which means, if it is a N2's Z direction, the max movement is 305mm. If the printer finds that it has already moved 305mm in Z, it will stop moving immediately.
But this may do harm to the hardware. If in Z direction, the nozzle may crash the build plate which may damage the hotend, buildtak and glass.


In this case you should immediately send out better switches to all your customers.

User avatar
Vicky@Raise3D
Posts: 2178
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 3:54 am

Re: A little disappointed with the N2

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:20 am

Although we found some problem cases of endstop switch, but it does not have a very high fault rate based on our data.

lami3d
Posts: 217
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2016 7:40 am
Location: Marseille - France

Re: A little disappointed with the N2

Postby lami3d » Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:21 am

Vicky@Raise3D wrote:It has a logic as following, the movement will stop when the printer finds that it has already finished the longest it can move.
Which means, if it is a N2's Z direction, the max movement is 305mm. If the printer finds that it has already moved 305mm in Z, it will stop moving immediately.
But this may do harm to the hardware. If in Z direction, the nozzle may crash the build plate which may damage the hotend, buildtak and glass.


Hello Vicky,

And all the rods would be bent for sure :( Z limit switch that doesn't work is the worst case. your printer is nearly dead if it's happen.

If the limit switch doesn't work in X direction, you will hurt the left rod (and the parallel center rod)
In Y direction, you will hurt the front rod (and the parallel center rod)

When i replaced them, i noticed that a metal blade of one of the limit switches was about to be fully cut (i just pulled it and it broke...)
I was happy to replace them before carnage but i think it's sadly going to happen to someone...

I think it's the kind of issue that have to be solved quickly because if Raise3D said they will replace limit switches when they break (that's what you wrote), they will have to take into account all the others damages that would habe been caused by this failure...

So, yes, you need to find better limit switches and, even more, i think FMECA will lead Raise3D to double this function

lami3d
Posts: 217
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2016 7:40 am
Location: Marseille - France

Re: A little disappointed with the N2

Postby lami3d » Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:37 am

jj
Last edited by lami3d on Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

lami3d
Posts: 217
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2016 7:40 am
Location: Marseille - France

Re: A little disappointed with the N2

Postby lami3d » Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:37 am

Vicky@Raise3D wrote:Although we found some problem cases of endstop switch, but it does not have a very high fault rate based on our data.

Maybe but the Severity will be "I. Catastrophic"

You can have one limit swith but it would be monitored (auto-test...)
Actualy, a "test" is performed when a print starts, if there's no problem, it's OK..

User avatar
Vicky@Raise3D
Posts: 2178
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 3:54 am

Re: A little disappointed with the N2

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:40 am

Well noted. Will share your commends to our engineers.

lami3d
Posts: 217
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2016 7:40 am
Location: Marseille - France

Re: A little disappointed with the N2

Postby lami3d » Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:49 am

My office is a mess but i'm not sure i've junk the limit switch i told you
but if i find it, i will post a picture of it.

lami3d
Posts: 217
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2016 7:40 am
Location: Marseille - France

Re: A little disappointed with the N2

Postby lami3d » Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:52 am

Today, what we can do as a preventive action is to manually check if the limit switches click when we press them and check that the homings stop when we press the limit switch

But it will increase the number of "cycle" of the limit switch and use it prematurely

kdpainter
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2016 10:32 pm

Re: A little disappointed with the N2

Postby kdpainter » Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:13 am

The downward cooling fan being shared with the heat break is unbelievable. I can't see how this made it out of beta this way. Not being able to shut the printer down without the tablet battery dying is a major blunder. Oh and the fans run all the time. Who was the genius that thought that was a good idea? I have more complaints. I am not all that happy with this printer.


Return to “Hardware”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests