Bondtech and 3dsolex nozzles

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Jetguy
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Re: Bondtech and 3dsolex nozzles

Postby Jetguy » Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:42 pm

Printing with a 1.5mm 3D Solex, but it's also 3mm filament.
I'm not fully dialed in, but getting some insane rates, example being printing 243g of filament in 3hours and 31 minutes.
The same print, had I used a 0.4mm nozzle and 0.2mm layer height to get about the same wall thickness (number of shells and layers for roofs and floors) to get near the same density 227g, would take 17+ hours.

What I'm saying is, regardless of filament size, #1 3D Solex nozzles are a game changer, and #2 bigger is better, and while I might have some resolution and details to work through, if you are printing big and need it done and strong prints, this is where you really see some melting plastic.

Again, let's say you had an N2Plus and you have some really big prints that take up near the full bed size and are 600mm tall. That kind of print job could take a week with a 0.4mm nozzle, running as fast as you could push the mechanics, simply because the layer height and how wide a nozzle pass is, to push that kind of volume. You use that larger 0.8, 1.0, 1.5mm nozzle, or even the 2.0mm nozzle, You could print in a day what you cannot print in 5 days with a 0.4mm nozzle.
Attachments
1.5mm PLA-export.zip
(7.98 KiB) Downloaded 12 times
3D knot print0.4mm nozzle.jpg
3D knot print.png
IMG_0441.JPG
IMG_0434.JPG
Last edited by Jetguy on Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Jetguy
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Re: Bondtech and 3dsolex nozzles

Postby Jetguy » Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:48 pm

Also, I have an ABS profile for a 0.8mm Solex nozzle from Vice Chief that prints OK, but the truth is, we got much better results from S3D with these larger nozzles. This was used on My N2 plus with a Bondtech and normal 1.75mm filament.
The slicing settings don't change, the only place where 3mm is set is in the machine profile.
Attachments
point8Test-export.zip
(7.14 KiB) Downloaded 13 times

Jetguy
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Re: Bondtech and 3dsolex nozzles

Postby Jetguy » Thu Jun 21, 2018 1:38 am

Again, sorry if I'm not giving the exact answer you wanted, but I can say this, #1 I ordered the same 3D Solex nozzle set for the Raise 3D printer. #2 I'm using a Bondtech extruder on most of my printers, just not the biggest machine running the 3mm filament (that runs a Titan Aero), but I am running 3D Solex "Matchless" nozzles on all my printers in testing now. I bought my kit of nozzles here after Martin of Bondtech showed his demo kit to me at MRRF https://www.amazon.com/3D-Solex-Raise3D ... B074M75CVK


This is the marketing information, but I'm telling you my real world testing absolutely says this is not just some fancy numbers, it's true.
Sizes 0.25- 2.0mm Worlds Biggest Nozzle for Raise3D.

Prints up to 4 times more output.*
Prints cooler, – 5-15 deg Celcius.*
100% drop-in compatible
-Matchless Race Technology prints up to 4 times faster then a standard nozzle of the same size.*
-Hard metal coated Brass. Makes for easier outside cleaning.-Precision manufacture in Norway at an ISO 9001 certified facility.
* -does not apply to 0.25mm and as this small size does not benefit from the Matchless technology.
* – 0.40mm not available yet.

Usage suggestions, adjust speeds up / down form here:

Greatly increase plastic throughput according to this formula. In many applications you can benefit from printing an equally low layer as before, but several times wider so you need fewer passes since the wall will be 1-2mm thick just by one pass.

Nozzle size (mm) X layerheight (mm) X printing speed (mm/sec) = cubic mm plastic/sec.

0.60 nozzle example: 0.60 x 0.15 x 150 = 13.5 cubic/sec.
1.0 nozzle example: 1.0 x 0.3 x 100 = 30 cubic/sec. ( already world record for Raise3d).
2.0 nozzle example: 2.0 x 1.0 x 40 = 40 cubic/sec. ( !! ).
2.0 alternative xample: 2.0 x 0.15 layer x 100mm/sec = 30 cubic/sec.

Using a BONDTECH feeder for Raise3D can significantly increase these figures, on some cases up to double ore more, depending on your filament, model, and printer/slicer settings.


One of the reasons is, they use 5 axis CNC machining to make a greater surface area contact to help melt the filament.
IMG_1818-400x519.jpg

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JohnSays
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Re: Bondtech and 3dsolex nozzles

Postby JohnSays » Wed Jun 27, 2018 8:35 pm

*Hi JetGuy. I have not been able to get a decent enough looking print with the Matchless nozzles. I have spent many hours - days actually - adjusting and still cannot reduce artifacts to an acceptable level. However, when I want to make something fast and quality is not a major issue, the matchless nozzles are the way to go for sure. I made a Digital Read Out bracket for my lathe at 100mm/sec and it came out far better and faster than the stock 0.8mm nozzle could ever do. So they have their uses for sure.

I'm printing my prototypes in Hatchbox ABS white with a 0.6mm nozzle and I thought that maybe I could speed things up with the Matchless, but no -- at least not without sacrificing too much quality. Let me know if you can beat the quality issue -- that's the hangup with these in IMO. I may apply the Lin_Advance to the problem - just thought of that. I believe the problem has to do with the acceleration and deceleration vs. the curve of the pressure in the nozzle as the problems all come at the corners/turns/shell levels.

*Please see my update to this post below.
Last edited by JohnSays on Fri Nov 30, 2018 8:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- John
2 Raise3D N2 Duals, V2 nozzles, Bondtech BMGs, adjustable table, Panucatt SD2224 drivers, run-out sensor, thermal overload protection resistors on motion controller board, Firmware 1.1.8ABH - with Lin_Advance, Palette+

NewbPilot
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Re: Bondtech and 3dsolex nozzles

Postby NewbPilot » Mon Nov 19, 2018 1:35 am

@Jetguy - just wondering what max speeds you're getting with a 1.0mm nozzle, both in standard printing as well as vasemode. I have Vase Mode going at about 25mm/s at 210 for PLA (3dFuel) ... Wondering your thoughts ... do you have a Factory File with your best 1.0mm settings for PLA? I am happy with my quality - i am just wondering if I can get it better. I bought the 1.0mm, and have a 1.5mm on the way. I havent bought the kit, but may consider going to the 0.4m as well. I havent really seen printing cooler, but I am not comparing a 0.4mm R3D to a 0.4mm 3DSolex at the moment.

Thanks in advance,
Matt

Jetguy wrote:Again, sorry if I'm not giving the exact answer you wanted, but I can say this, #1 I ordered the same 3D Solex nozzle set for the Raise 3D printer. #2 I'm using a Bondtech extruder on most of my printers, just not the biggest machine running the 3mm filament (that runs a Titan Aero), but I am running 3D Solex "Matchless" nozzles on all my printers in testing now. I bought my kit of nozzles here after Martin of Bondtech showed his demo kit to me at MRRF https://www.amazon.com/3D-Solex-Raise3D ... B074M75CVK


This is the marketing information, but I'm telling you my real world testing absolutely says this is not just some fancy numbers, it's true.
Sizes 0.25- 2.0mm Worlds Biggest Nozzle for Raise3D.

Prints up to 4 times more output.*
Prints cooler, – 5-15 deg Celcius.*
100% drop-in compatible
-Matchless Race Technology prints up to 4 times faster then a standard nozzle of the same size.*
-Hard metal coated Brass. Makes for easier outside cleaning.-Precision manufacture in Norway at an ISO 9001 certified facility.
* -does not apply to 0.25mm and as this small size does not benefit from the Matchless technology.
* – 0.40mm not available yet.

Usage suggestions, adjust speeds up / down form here:

Greatly increase plastic throughput according to this formula. In many applications you can benefit from printing an equally low layer as before, but several times wider so you need fewer passes since the wall will be 1-2mm thick just by one pass.

Nozzle size (mm) X layerheight (mm) X printing speed (mm/sec) = cubic mm plastic/sec.

0.60 nozzle example: 0.60 x 0.15 x 150 = 13.5 cubic/sec.
1.0 nozzle example: 1.0 x 0.3 x 100 = 30 cubic/sec. ( already world record for Raise3d).
2.0 nozzle example: 2.0 x 1.0 x 40 = 40 cubic/sec. ( !! ).
2.0 alternative xample: 2.0 x 0.15 layer x 100mm/sec = 30 cubic/sec.

Using a BONDTECH feeder for Raise3D can significantly increase these figures, on some cases up to double ore more, depending on your filament, model, and printer/slicer settings.


One of the reasons is, they use 5 axis CNC machining to make a greater surface area contact to help melt the filament.
IMG_1818-400x519.jpg

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JohnSays
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Re: Bondtech and 3dsolex nozzles

Postby JohnSays » Fri Nov 30, 2018 8:22 pm

I have revisited these nozzles now using Marlin 1.1.9 from ABH and version 1.5 Linear Advance K-factor. I have been able to successfully print at up to 200mm/sec using 0.6 nozzle mounted on E3D copper block at jerk up to 15 and acceleration of 3000. I have not tried to go any faster -- due mainly to time constraints on my part. (Note that I have a highly modified print carriage, and no way would a stock N2 operate at these speeds.)

At more conservative speeds, I am getting super clean corners and prints using Linear Advance K-factor. It is no longer possible to overrun the extrusion -- where the extrusion cannot keep up with the speed of the printer.

Matchless are now my favorite nozzles -- period.
- John
2 Raise3D N2 Duals, V2 nozzles, Bondtech BMGs, adjustable table, Panucatt SD2224 drivers, run-out sensor, thermal overload protection resistors on motion controller board, Firmware 1.1.8ABH - with Lin_Advance, Palette+

NewbPilot
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Re: Bondtech and 3dsolex nozzles

Postby NewbPilot » Sat Dec 01, 2018 1:06 pm

JohnSays wrote:I have revisited these nozzles now using Marlin 1.1.9 from ABH and version 1.5 Linear Advance K-factor. I have been able to successfully print at up to 200mm/sec using 0.6 nozzle mounted on E3D copper block at jerk up to 15 and acceleration of 3000. I have not tried to go any faster -- due mainly to time constraints on my part. (Note that I have a highly modified print carriage, and no way would a stock N2 operate at these speeds.)

At more conservative speeds, I am getting super clean corners and prints using Linear Advance K-factor. It is no longer possible to overrun the extrusion -- where the extrusion cannot keep up with the speed of the printer.

Matchless are now my favorite nozzles -- period.


Well that is great news!! I have the 1.5mm nozzle on my stock N2, and the first layers are miserble. Im at 20mm/s and the overlap is terrible even at 0.95 extrusion multiplier and 0.2mm layer height. The 1.0mm nozzle worked nicely, but im unable the get 1.5 at the same quality.

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JohnSays
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Re: Bondtech and 3dsolex nozzles

Postby JohnSays » Sat Dec 01, 2018 6:14 pm

I seriously doubt that the stock hot end can deliver enough BTUs to successfully print with a 1.2mm nozzle. I was trying to print ABS at 100mm/sec with a stock plated .6 nozzle and the hot end could not keep up. However, I am surprised that you can print with 1.0mm. That's cool.
- John
2 Raise3D N2 Duals, V2 nozzles, Bondtech BMGs, adjustable table, Panucatt SD2224 drivers, run-out sensor, thermal overload protection resistors on motion controller board, Firmware 1.1.8ABH - with Lin_Advance, Palette+

NewbPilot
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Re: Bondtech and 3dsolex nozzles

Postby NewbPilot » Sun Dec 09, 2018 4:26 am

JohnSays wrote:I seriously doubt that the stock hot end can deliver enough BTUs to successfully print with a 1.2mm nozzle. I was trying to print ABS at 100mm/sec with a stock plated .6 nozzle and the hot end could not keep up. However, I am surprised that you can print with 1.0mm. That's cool.


You're printing at 100mm/sec. I'm printing at 20mm/sec. That may be why I was able to get 1.0mm vase modes to work?

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JohnSays
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Re: Bondtech and 3dsolex nozzles

Postby JohnSays » Sun Dec 09, 2018 6:51 pm

Yeah, sounds right to me.
- John
2 Raise3D N2 Duals, V2 nozzles, Bondtech BMGs, adjustable table, Panucatt SD2224 drivers, run-out sensor, thermal overload protection resistors on motion controller board, Firmware 1.1.8ABH - with Lin_Advance, Palette+


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