ABS print settings

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OncologyEngineer
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Location: Sydney, Australia

ABS print settings

Postby OncologyEngineer » Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:13 am

Dear All,

Hi all and hoping that I might get some suggestions on if and how I can make my ABS prints better. I did notice during the build that the finish between layers was noticeablymore rough than when I use PLA, it looked like it had lots of "bobs and zits" is that normal? I've attached the code as well. Not super experienced so guidance greatly appreciated.

I've also attached another pic of a print in process. Thanks in advance.

Cheers,

OncEng
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Jetguy
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Re: ABS print settings

Postby Jetguy » Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:25 pm

Couple of things:
#1 ABS is very prone to moisture and this turns to steam. "lots of "bobs and zits" is that normal?"
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=4120&p=20119
#2 First layer is controlled by 3 things:
nozzle height to bed distance (AKA leveling, Z-gap, or first layer height in combination)
Surface prep- buildtack, glue, or whatever surface is clean, oil fingerprint free, and freshly prepared and smooth.
speed that first layer is printed at. Slower gives the thick peanut butter like consistency of ABS time to flow smooth out.

Also a good post to reference viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1197&p=10884#p10884

And then Matter Hackers has an entire series of "How to succeed with filament XXX"
https://www.matterhackers.com/articles/ ... g-with-abs

First layer speed.jpg

OncologyEngineer
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Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2018 1:34 am
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: ABS print settings

Postby OncologyEngineer » Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:59 pm

Thanks Jetguy,
As a noob I think that's exactly what I am needing. I know that there's a big push that moving away from the default settings will generally reduce the quality and so I had been using mostly the default values but may not be quite right, especially when in regards to the layer height. I've moved the first layer height from the default 0.30 to 0.14 for the standard ABS thanks to your wiki "first layer settings" page suggestion resulting in great first layer adhesion.
Cheers,
Onc Eng
N2+ dual standard
Based in Sydney, Australia

Jetguy
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Location: In a van, down by the river

Re: ABS print settings

Postby Jetguy » Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:47 pm

Caution, I should have warned, that screenshot is from a profile tuned for a giant honking 0.80mm nozzle.
So what worked for that profile- may not be ideal for a smaller nozzle. Just saying, i was trying to show where one setting was (first layer speed).

OncologyEngineer
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2018 1:34 am
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: ABS print settings

Postby OncologyEngineer » Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:57 pm

Haha, no problem at all. Just working through your links right now. Probably a dumb question but now that I have reduced the first layer height down lower would the 0.2 mm feeler gauge supplied with the printer work for bed height? It was a bit too small previously?
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Vice Chief
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Re: ABS print settings

Postby Vice Chief » Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:24 pm

Hey OncologyEngineer, I print a lot of ABS with the stock .4mm nozzle. It's useful to change settings here and there.

I typically use eSun black ABS though there's nothing magic about it.

On my machine, I raise the nozzle temp all the way to 245 and the bed to 108. With the bed temp that high, you want to wait for it to cool way down before attempting to remove the print because the buildtak adhesive will be soft.

I print with ABS juice on glass, and the build plate upside-down (buildtak down). This is a bit more advanced, don't bother with it unless you can't get good results with the stock config.

I set my nozzle to .1mm from the bed using a feeler gauge. I've always done it that way and I had some problems getting it to work with the .2mm feeler included with the printer. I'm telling you this just to let you know that it's OK to go closer to get bed adhesion.

OncologyEngineer
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2018 1:34 am
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: ABS print settings

Postby OncologyEngineer » Tue Jun 19, 2018 2:11 am

Thanks Vice Cheif,
Following the change to the first layer height I'm getting incredible adhesion with the bed at 100C. I printed a 20mm calibration block with 30% infill and when I gave it a tap to get it off it sheared off at the first layer! That was without any layer separation, the print looked awesome. I need to reduce the bed temp further.
Cheers, Onc Eng
N2+ dual standard
Based in Sydney, Australia

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JohnSays
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Re: ABS print settings

Postby JohnSays » Wed Jun 27, 2018 8:58 pm

I print ABS on 1mm thick PEI 3M taped to glass. Depending on the brand of ABS I print with a nozzle temp of 240 - 255 with my 0.6mm nozzle. Bed temp is 105C. My prints are anywhere from 3 to 8 inches in diameter and most of that surface area is stuck down really well. I use a skirt to hold the alcohol (explained shortly) and no brim or raft. The problem can be in releasing the print from the bed. I apply 70% grain alcohol with a dropper all the way around the circumference of the printed object. Capillary force pulls the alcohol under the print and it releases often without any force at all if you give it enough time. Apply the alcohol while the bed is still hot and let it cool. Soon you will hear the part snap free. If not, push a very thin and sharp scraper under the part just a little bit and the alcohol will begin to be pulled in. Wipe away the access alcohol and print again, repeat and repeat -- the surface will last for weeks and then only need a quick resurface by sanding with 600 grit wet-dry. (Note: I would not use the heavy duty non-flexing part removal tool supplied with the printer. Too stiff and thick.)

You can get PEI in 12x12 from Gizmo Dorks on Amazon with included 3M backer tape. Put it on a piece of window glass the same size as the Buildtek plate. I like the extra thick window glass for increased flatness and strength and have never had one break from heat. Position the 12x12 along the front and left edges of the glass and you will have the exact same amount of build space as if you are using the original build plate because R3D measures the 12x12 from the front left X=0 and Y=0 coordinate.
- John
2 Raise3D N2 Duals, V2 nozzles, Bondtech BMGs, adjustable table, Panucatt SD2224 drivers, run-out sensor, thermal overload protection resistors on motion controller board, Firmware 1.1.8ABH - with Lin_Advance, Palette+

EldRick
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Re: ABS print settings

Postby EldRick » Thu Jun 28, 2018 12:15 am

I use the .020" (half-mm) thickness of PEI (Ultem brand) with the frosted surface up, from cshyde: http://catalog.cshyde.com/viewitems/3d- ... /ultem-pei?

They offer it with the back side adhesive already applied (with no wrinkles or bubbles) which makes applying to the glass easier.

If you want to cover the entire buildplate, which I recommend, get PEI slightly larger than the N2 glass, and cut off the excess after applying.

OncologyEngineer
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2018 1:34 am
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: ABS print settings

Postby OncologyEngineer » Mon Jul 02, 2018 5:04 am

Hi JohnSays and EldRick,
Thank you so much for your replies, tricks and tips, that was exacly what I was looking for.
I think that I might need to try out some PEI. I'll get both and see which works better.
I like the sound of using alcohol. I have plenty of 90% IPA and usually print with a skirt, it sounds too easy!!!
Cheers, Onc Eng
N2+ dual standard
Based in Sydney, Australia

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JohnSays
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Re: ABS print settings

Postby JohnSays » Mon Jul 02, 2018 5:29 pm

EldRick wrote:I use the .020" (half-mm) thickness of PEI (Ultem brand) with the frosted surface up, from cshyde: http://catalog.cshyde.com/viewitems/3d- ... /ultem-pei?

They offer it with the back side adhesive already applied (with no wrinkles or bubbles) which makes applying to the glass easier.

If you want to cover the entire buildplate, which I recommend, get PEI slightly larger than the N2 glass, and cut off the excess after applying.


I'm going to give that a shot too. I like the idea of having it pre-frosted and pre-3Md. I sand mine right off the bat otherwise the alcohol can't get under it as easily and the surface is way to shinny compared with the other surfaces.

Edit: Changed my mind. That is double the Gizmo Dorks price...
- John
2 Raise3D N2 Duals, V2 nozzles, Bondtech BMGs, adjustable table, Panucatt SD2224 drivers, run-out sensor, thermal overload protection resistors on motion controller board, Firmware 1.1.8ABH - with Lin_Advance, Palette+

rivman455
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Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:21 pm

Re: ABS print settings

Postby rivman455 » Thu Aug 09, 2018 9:09 pm

Jetguy wrote:Caution, I should have warned, that screenshot is from a profile tuned for a giant honking 0.80mm nozzle.
So what worked for that profile- may not be ideal for a smaller nozzle. Just saying, i was trying to show where one setting was (first layer speed).


Jetguy - Are you having good luck with the .8mm nozzle? Could you share more of your setting for that? I'm looking to produce some large prototype parts, surface quality is not so much a concern as time so I was looking to swap out my .4mm with the .8mm. I'm printing ABS as well.


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