Problems with vase mode

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Sleebus.jones
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Problems with vase mode

Postby Sleebus.jones » Sun May 20, 2018 2:50 pm

I've printed this exact vase with other slicing software on my printer with no problem. However, this is what I get when I run it through ideaMaker:

Image

Any suggestions?

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Problems with vase mode

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Mon May 21, 2018 11:28 am

Is it possible to ask your .stl, .gcode and .data files to have a look?

Jetguy
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Re: Problems with vase mode

Postby Jetguy » Mon May 21, 2018 12:22 pm

Sleebus.jones wrote:I've printed this exact vase with other slicing software on my printer with no problem. However, this is what I get when I run it through ideaMaker:

Image

Any suggestions?


I think is potentially related to a thin wall setting bug in Ideamaker. What happens is, for reasons I cannot fathom, Ideamaker puts logical points outside the model in gcode when this setting is enabled in some cases making the gcode look "spikey". It would not surprise me to see a different result since they have updated the slicer and made changes since that post, but I still think there can be issues.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1581&p=13637&hilit=spikes#p13637
vase mode problem.jpg

Vase mode thin walls.jpg


Again, to be clear, uncheck the 2 settings I have shown and slice and check the slice preview of the gcode.

Jetguy
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Re: Problems with vase mode

Postby Jetguy » Mon May 21, 2018 12:25 pm

And yes, please share or provide a link to the STL if you can. This will always help any diagnoses when asking about setting or error in slicing.

Sleebus.jones
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Re: Problems with vase mode

Postby Sleebus.jones » Tue May 22, 2018 12:18 am

Hi,

I'm 99.9% sure these are the files I used. I could check by printing again, but my printer is already busy with a job tonight. It must be something really weird in the gcode as I could easily hear it when it got to that point. Instead of nice smooth stepper motor whine, it had a weird vibrato to it that was very noticeable. When looking at the preview of the tool path, I could see in those areas that the segment count was greatly reduced.
Attachments
Twisted_Hex_Vase.zip
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Sleebus.jones
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Re: Problems with vase mode

Postby Sleebus.jones » Thu May 24, 2018 1:37 am

Any news?

Jetguy
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Re: Problems with vase mode

Postby Jetguy » Thu May 24, 2018 12:52 pm

Sleebus.jones wrote:Any news?

Sorry, I only just saw that you uploaded the gcode.

A preview of that gcode using Simplify 3D (a much more feature rich slicer that you pay for, not for free) shows no errors in the gcode.
By errors, I mean speed changes or other errant paths.

So what that means is?
You said the key word stuttering- and that tells me it's likely you have slammed headlong into a known short segment limit.
#1 understand a curve is not a curve in current gcode, it is a multi sided polygon.
#2 The control system we use inside these printers is technically streaming the gcode AKA printing over USB- a KNOWN limitation in the 3D printing world to limit short segment performance (the exact kind of thing you would see here).
#3 There were complaints about ideamaker making finely segmented gcode known to peg these internal limits in the printer.
#4 It's still potentially not fixed.

Please, read this entire topic and all the replies to get up to speed on this problem and better understand it.
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=6776&hilit=stuttering

That said, in the exact same topic, you can bypass the front panel LCD streaming problem and print from a directly attached SD card with the gcode file by buying and attaching a cheap and popular LCD module at the mainboard. This will allow you to print from directly attached SD card and increases the performance of the system to it's upper maximum limit. viewtopic.php?f=8&t=6776&hilit=stuttering#p27238

Amazon Prime $13 and an SD card and this limit goes away https://www.amazon.com/KINGPRINT-Graphi ... 076WQQX5K/

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Problems with vase mode

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Thu May 24, 2018 1:25 pm

We tried your gcode on our printer, it turns out normal. Have you adjust any setting during printing or not?
1.jpg

Jetguy
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Re: Problems with vase mode

Postby Jetguy » Thu May 24, 2018 1:26 pm

Again, detail gcode preview in S3D lets us see how many segments (lines) in a given area.
What I did here is first adjust to the height or region in the model where we see the error in your print.
Suttering gcode preview1.jpg


Next, I enable a line count in this region, and set it to 100 to observe that 100 lines worth of path. Notice, it does not even make one full 360 circle of the print layer. We have more than 100 segments per perimeter here.
Suttering gcode preview100lines.jpg

Those segments and high "resolution" in gcode are a choking point in the system.

However, if we go down to layers where you did not see the issue and do a line count by lowering the preview number until I got an open circumference perimeter, and then raised back up to find the exact number of segments per that "layer" (spiral vase mode really has no layers, but for a reference point here, this is the best we can do), we find 46 segments at this height.
Suttering gcode preview46lines.jpg
Last edited by Jetguy on Thu May 24, 2018 3:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Jetguy
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Re: Problems with vase mode

Postby Jetguy » Thu May 24, 2018 1:31 pm

Sleebus.jones wrote:Hi,

I'm 99.9% sure these are the files I used. I could check by printing again, but my printer is already busy with a job tonight. It must be something really weird in the gcode as I could easily hear it when it got to that point. Instead of nice smooth stepper motor whine, it had a weird vibrato to it that was very noticeable. When looking at the preview of the tool path, I could see in those areas that the segment count was greatly reduced.


Actually, I found the opposite.
Segment count for a given layer in the problem area was greatly increased over 100 segments to even make a "layer".
Above and below that, segments were reduced to less than 100 and tapering down into the below 50 segments to make a complete "layer".
Again, that's completely opposite of that you said, " could see in those areas that the segment count was greatly reduced".

Jetguy
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Re: Problems with vase mode

Postby Jetguy » Thu May 24, 2018 3:46 pm

Now I did print the sample gcode on my N1 (even though the file is made for a larger printer, in this case, it still fits) and did not get any artifacts, but you could definitely hear the segments. My thought is that if you used any feedrate multiplier, then the risk for hitting that limit increases. In addition, curious what exact firmware versions you are running (both Raisetouch and Marlin). Also, since there is a growing group of folks adding DIY streaming USB based cameras and starting services to stream that video over the network, are you one of the folks doing that?

Again, what I'm seeing is the file has potential to hit limits. It might not hit them on many printers, but if yours has some other differences, or firmware or some other setting (like flowrate on the LCD increased from 100% default) then that could contribute.

IF it's not gcode and speed, then the other option is your extruder feeder, for whatever reason what skipping steps- and that's a totally different scenario of failure to extrude.
Attachments
IMG_0351.JPG
IMG_0350.JPG

Jetguy
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Re: Problems with vase mode

Postby Jetguy » Thu May 24, 2018 3:54 pm

Oh heck, I just realized after looking at the printer in the background, this isn't even a Raise 3D printer.

I'm all for helping folks, but come on man, this is your printer crapping out. Not even a fair comparison.
We have no baseline of your firmware, if you were printing over USB or Octoprint, that would go a long way to explaining this.
At the same time, I know the brass stock feeder on your printer is junk, and the same drive gear upgrade we recommend for the OEM feeder here applies to your printer too.

I just feel like I got bamboozled into helping someone and spent significant time and effort on a topic that really- it's all your printer and relatively outside of the scope of this group. Again, just ran a 1+ hour print job, looked at gcode, analyzed layers and all kinds of stuff, linked references and it's not even a raise 3D printer- who only knows what printer limitations and problems it might have.

Don't take me wrong and I'm not saying you cannot ask questions here, no, I do welcome a good question. But the lesson today is, yep- other printers may have limitations and good reason why to buy a Raise 3D.

Sleebus.jones
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Re: Problems with vase mode

Postby Sleebus.jones » Sat May 26, 2018 3:57 pm

Jetguy wrote:Oh heck, I just realized after looking at the printer in the background, this isn't even a Raise 3D printer.

I'm all for helping folks, but come on man, this is your printer crapping out. Not even a fair comparison.


Wrong. You're jumping to conclusions with no data. Proof:

Image

This was sliced with Cura. Printed fine with no problems with my "junk" nozzle. :roll: Sliced with ideaMaker it gives the result above. Same printer. Besides, this software is distributed freely, anyone can use it on any printer. You don't have to have purchased a Raise 3D to use it, neither do you have to own one to post here. Same source file, same printer, same print method (directly from micro-SD), different slicers. Only slicer that doesn't work is ideaMaker. Hmmmmm, wonder what could be the common thread here?

Alex M.
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Re: Problems with vase mode

Postby Alex M. » Sat May 26, 2018 4:45 pm

Sleebus.jones wrote:
Jetguy wrote:Oh heck, I just realized after looking at the printer in the background, [b]this isn't even a Raise 3D printer.[/b]

I'm all for helping folks, but come on man, this is your printer crapping out. Not even a fair comparison.


Wrong. You're jumping to conclusions with no data. Proof:

Image

This was sliced with Cura. Printed fine with no problems with my "junk" nozzle. :roll: Sliced with ideaMaker it gives the result above. Same printer. Besides, this software is distributed freely, anyone can use it on any printer. You don't have to have purchased a Raise 3D to use it, neither do you have to own one to post here. Same source file, same printer, same print method (directly from micro-SD), different slicers. Only slicer that doesn't work is ideaMaker. Hmmmmm, wonder what could be the common thread here?


The point JetGuy was making (issues bolded above) is that you far from forthcoming that you were not using a Raise3D printer. You never mentioned this was not a Raise3D printer and therefore being that you are writing on the Raise3D forums, many assumed that you were. The printer used CHANGES THINGS, and therefore was a waste of his time. Not saying you don't have a point about the differences on IdeaMaker versus Cura, but you must understand that ideaMaker was made for Raise3D printer. It may work with other printer but that wasn't why it was designed. Be more direct, ie. you still haven't mentioned which printer you use, and people might be more understanding.

Sleebus.jones
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Re: Problems with vase mode

Postby Sleebus.jones » Sat May 26, 2018 5:33 pm

Alex M. wrote:The point JetGuy was making (issues bolded above) is that you far from forthcoming that you were not using a Raise3D printer. You never mentioned this was not a Raise3D printer and therefore being that you are writing on the Raise3D forums, many assumed that you were. The printer used CHANGES THINGS, and therefore was a waste of his time. Not saying you don't have a point about the differences on IdeaMaker versus Cura, but you must understand that ideaMaker was made for Raise3D printer. It may work with other printer but that wasn't why it was designed. Be more direct, ie. you still haven't mentioned which printer you use, and people might be more understanding.


The printer is a Creality CR-10s. I was going to print in Software (in retrospect was likely the proper place to post) but reading the forum headings this seemed to be the spot. I disagree that I was not forthcoming, that would be more along the lines of someone asking and I refused to tell them. If it seemed that way it was purely unintentional. If this belongs more in the software section, mods, please move.


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