ABS warping

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Casale8
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Re: ABS warping

Postby Casale8 » Tue May 01, 2018 6:30 pm

Noren wrote:I had an idea yesterday of anti warping infill. It should be possible to make the infill have a shape that prevents and counteracts warping. More infill in certain places. Different structures. Or internal bracing. (You know were you read it first. ;).


I won't forget. haha
-SCC
“One man's "magic" is another man's engineering. "Supernatural" is a null word.” -R.A.Heinlein

detroitus
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Re: ABS warping

Postby detroitus » Wed May 02, 2018 2:52 pm

Noren wrote:I had an idea yesterday of anti warping infill. It should be possible to make the infill have a shape that prevents and counteracts warping. More infill in certain places. Different structures. Or internal bracing. (You know were you read it first. ;).


I, for one, would be very interested to see in what kind of internal structure or bracing would prevent warping if the bracing material is in contact with and has the same thermal expansion properties as what it's attempting to reinforce. Please show your work. ;)

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Noren
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Re: ABS warping

Postby Noren » Wed May 02, 2018 3:48 pm

detroitus wrote:
Noren wrote:I had an idea yesterday of anti warping infill. It should be possible to make the infill have a shape that prevents and counteracts warping. More infill in certain places. Different structures. Or internal bracing. (You know were you read it first. ;).


I, for one, would be very interested to see in what kind of internal structure or bracing would prevent warping if the bracing material is in contact with and has the same thermal expansion properties as what it's attempting to reinforce. Please show your work. ;)


Don’t say it was a good idea. ;)

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jetdillo
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Re: ABS warping

Postby jetdillo » Thu May 03, 2018 4:12 am

I never got anywhere with ABS until I started using "ABS Juice" on the glass bed.
I use SimpleGreen to clean off the surface of the glass and wipe it till it squeaks.
Then generously slather acetone/ABS slurry over the bed, pre-heat it for about 10-15 minutes and get printing.

When the print is done, I leave it to cool and listen for the *crack* of the part detaching from the bed due to shrinkage from cooling.

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Casale8
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Re: ABS warping

Postby Casale8 » Thu May 03, 2018 12:27 pm

jetdillo wrote:I never got anywhere with ABS until I started using "ABS Juice" on the glass bed.
I use SimpleGreen to clean off the surface of the glass and wipe it till it squeaks.
Then generously slather acetone/ABS slurry over the bed, pre-heat it for about 10-15 minutes and get printing.

When the print is done, I leave it to cool and listen for the *crack* of the part detaching from the bed due to shrinkage from cooling.


Reluctantly, I guess I will have to try printing ABS on the glass after all (for large prints). ;P
-SCC
“One man's "magic" is another man's engineering. "Supernatural" is a null word.” -R.A.Heinlein

Vice Chief
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Re: ABS warping

Postby Vice Chief » Thu May 03, 2018 4:15 pm

I've been using ABS slurry for years on my old Makerbot, and recently started using it again with my N2+. Works surprisingly well. I definitely prefer it to BuildTak and PEI sheets.

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Casale8
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Re: ABS warping

Postby Casale8 » Fri May 04, 2018 3:53 pm

Casale8 wrote:
jetdillo wrote:I never got anywhere with ABS until I started using "ABS Juice" on the glass bed.
I use SimpleGreen to clean off the surface of the glass and wipe it till it squeaks.
Then generously slather acetone/ABS slurry over the bed, pre-heat it for about 10-15 minutes and get printing.

When the print is done, I leave it to cool and listen for the *crack* of the part detaching from the bed due to shrinkage from cooling.


Reluctantly, I guess I will have to try printing ABS on the glass after all (for large prints). ;P


So I've done some testing with WolfBite on glass. 2 hours of testing at 240 nozzle and 100 bed. Fun stuff :roll: - small 1.25 x 1.25 print didn't even make it to the end of the first layer before it was ever-so subtly pulling away from the glass. Made a nice smooth surface, just didn't adhere worth a jack squat. I'm rather annoyed. lathered a little, then I lathered a lot on same result.
-SCC
“One man's "magic" is another man's engineering. "Supernatural" is a null word.” -R.A.Heinlein

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Noren
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Re: ABS warping

Postby Noren » Fri May 04, 2018 3:59 pm

Casale8 wrote:
Casale8 wrote:
jetdillo wrote:I never got anywhere with ABS until I started using "ABS Juice" on the glass bed.
I use SimpleGreen to clean off the surface of the glass and wipe it till it squeaks.
Then generously slather acetone/ABS slurry over the bed, pre-heat it for about 10-15 minutes and get printing.

When the print is done, I leave it to cool and listen for the *crack* of the part detaching from the bed due to shrinkage from cooling.


Reluctantly, I guess I will have to try printing ABS on the glass after all (for large prints). ;P


So I've done some testing with WolfBite on glass. 2 hours of testing at 240 nozzle and 100 bed. Fun stuff :roll: - small 1.25 x 1.25 print didn't even make it to the end of the first layer before it was ever-so subtly pulling away from the glass. Made a nice smooth surface, just didn't adhere worth a jack squat. I'm rather annoyed. lathered a little, then I lathered a lot on same result.


You might want to relevell your bed and check the distance from your nozzle to the bed. And I highly recommend PEI/Ultem to print on.

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Casale8
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Re: ABS warping

Postby Casale8 » Fri May 04, 2018 4:48 pm

Noren wrote:
Casale8 wrote:
Casale8 wrote:
Reluctantly, I guess I will have to try printing ABS on the glass after all (for large prints). ;P


So I've done some testing with WolfBite on glass. 2 hours of testing at 240 nozzle and 100 bed. Fun stuff :roll: - small 1.25 x 1.25 print didn't even make it to the end of the first layer before it was ever-so subtly pulling away from the glass. Made a nice smooth surface, just didn't adhere worth a jack squat. I'm rather annoyed. lathered a little, then I lathered a lot on same result.


You might want to relevell your bed and check the distance from your nozzle to the bed. And I highly recommend PEI/Ultem to print on.


Thanks, Noren. That's assumed necessary as soon as you take the glass with the buildtak and replace it with the glass without. Not the issue.

On print, you can see the adhesion initially, then it just slowly lifted...
-SCC
“One man's "magic" is another man's engineering. "Supernatural" is a null word.” -R.A.Heinlein

EldRick
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Re: ABS warping

Postby EldRick » Sat May 05, 2018 5:02 pm

That's assumed necessary as soon as you take the glass with the buildtak and replace it with the glass without.


You don't need to replace or re-level anything and probably won't even need to adjust the print height - just flip the buildplate over and print on the glass side.

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Casale8
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Re: ABS warping

Postby Casale8 » Mon May 07, 2018 7:57 pm

EldRick wrote:
That's assumed necessary as soon as you take the glass with the buildtak and replace it with the glass without.


You don't need to replace or re-level anything and probably won't even need to adjust the print height - just flip the buildplate over and print on the glass side.

INTERESTING
-SCC
“One man's "magic" is another man's engineering. "Supernatural" is a null word.” -R.A.Heinlein

zemlin
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Re: ABS warping

Postby zemlin » Mon May 07, 2018 8:46 pm

EldRick wrote:You don't need to replace or re-level anything and probably won't even need to adjust the print height - just flip the buildplate over and print on the glass side.

I wouldn't place the BuildTak between the glass and the heater - it probably acts as a bit of an insulator. I don't have any data to support my statement.

EldRick
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Re: ABS warping

Postby EldRick » Tue May 08, 2018 5:52 am

Flipping it over works fine and did not damage my Buildtak. I removed it entirely after concluding that it doesn't work at all well for ABS. Now using PEI.

detroitus
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Re: ABS warping

Postby detroitus » Tue May 08, 2018 7:11 pm

zemlin wrote:
EldRick wrote:You don't need to replace or re-level anything and probably won't even need to adjust the print height - just flip the buildplate over and print on the glass side.

I wouldn't place the BuildTak between the glass and the heater - it probably acts as a bit of an insulator. I don't have any data to support my statement.


If you are using the standard Raise3d bed, then the glass isn't in solid conductive contact with the heated aluminum plate anyway. The leveling of the very thin metal plate makes it very not flat, so there are multiple gaps between it and the glass build surface. That being the case, any thermal insulation you get from the BuildTac is going to be negligible compared to that of air.


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