PETG Settings

Share your successful printing settings with others here. If you have any question about the parameters or printing skills of some filament, please find here.
zemlin
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Re: PETG Settings

Postby zemlin » Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:04 pm

What brand of PETG are you running? I've run many spools of Hatchbox and eSun and never have the issues you're seeing.

Raess
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Re: PETG Settings

Postby Raess » Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:10 pm

Up and running again with a brim and bed at 95C. Looks good so far about 4h in to the print. I also redesign the sharp corners on the model to use a radius 10mm. I read this could release tensions from sharp edges.
I am running PrimaSelect PETG. info found http://www.primafilaments.com/product/primaselect-petg/

btw: it is much harder to catch the lift now when the brim is there? Or would the brim also lift now?
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zemlin
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Re: PETG Settings

Postby zemlin » Thu Feb 22, 2018 3:14 pm

Raess wrote:I am running PrimaSelect PETG. info found http://www.primafilaments.com/product/primaselect-petg/

Your experience with this material documented here would be reason enough for me to avoid trying it. You might want to test something different.

Raess
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Re: PETG Settings

Postby Raess » Thu Feb 22, 2018 10:23 pm

zemlin wrote:
Raess wrote:I am running PrimaSelect PETG. info found http://www.primafilaments.com/product/primaselect-petg/

Your experience with this material documented here would be reason enough for me to avoid trying it. You might want to test something different.


Yes I will do that when I have printed or failed my 9kg I bought :-)
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Raess
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Re: PETG Settings

Postby Raess » Fri Feb 23, 2018 7:04 am

Damn. I found this when I woke up this morning. Layers had shifted quite a lot. This print seems not willing to coporatate. Every time I try to print it a new problem Ariases. Quite frustrated.
200AC347-544F-45AD-BAA8-DF2D74A09D36.jpeg


The brim and first layer looked good anyways!
Any ideas want could have made this happend? Can it be a nozzle hit?
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Squenz
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Re: PETG Settings

Postby Squenz » Fri Feb 23, 2018 7:40 am

Man, i really feel sorry for you !!

I have nothing to answer your question, but what i've learned moments ago is to having the camera record the whole time with audio on. It doesn't help in hindering a misprint, but if you look into the video file, you can most likely hear and then see what the culprit was.

If you know what happened, you have at least an answer to the cause of the misprint vs only seeing the outcome and having to guess about the cause.

Raess
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Re: PETG Settings

Postby Raess » Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:59 am

Thanks for the advice. I will try to buy a cam for recording the prints.
Anyways I was trying to investigate this problem moving the head around with my hand. So I felt that X-Axis was mowing a bit hard, almost a bit bumpy. So I cleaned everything up and applied new grease. I also check screws and belt for tension, They seemed good.

Anyways. Bed is clean. Rods are clean and greased. Head is mowing great. Lets try it on more time! :)
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Raess
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Re: PETG Settings

Postby Raess » Sat Feb 24, 2018 9:56 pm

So it's official, I'm getting annoyed with this filament or my lack of knowledge.
With only 7h left on the 44h print I spotted two small cracks on the body (only on the outer shell).
IMG_1964.jpg


As I stated before, when I solve one problem, another problem arises.
Reading around the internet I found a lot of different answers on warping and cracking.
So to sum up the things I found:

Lifting/warping:
-Reduce infill to 10-15%? Prevent internal stresses within the model.
-Shells, No more then 2-3 shells. More material that attempting to shrink inward.
-High temperature for heat bed, causing the lower levels to not be able to cool.

Cracking:
-Airflow, print shielded from breezes (I print without the top cover?)
-Filament temperature, lower temperatures results in weaker layer bond. I am printing 225C, Filamented is rated at at 190-230C.

So what do you guys recommend to test for the next big print? I have no problems running small things like calibrations cubes etc. This problem occurs with large and high objects.

btw: I will let this print finish.
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Squenz
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Re: PETG Settings

Postby Squenz » Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:05 am

What's your extrusion width ?

I'm find myself printing a lot more than nozzle diameter with good results. I.e. with a 0.4 nozzle, a print with 0.5 EW is much more rigid, my standard for bigger sized models is 0.6EW/0.25LH nowadays, often printing at 0.75/0.25 also.

I even printed a part with 0.81EW/0.33 LH with great sucess. Of course, 0.33 LH isn't fine for the looks, but the rigidity outstanding and printing time is grossly reduced.

Raess
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Re: PETG Settings

Postby Raess » Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:54 am

I am running 0.4EW and 0.28LH.
For the first layer I print 0.32LH with Flowrate105%.

What does the extrusion width effect? Is that like increasing flowrate?
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ABH
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Re: PETG Settings

Postby ABH » Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:01 am

Extrusion width is used by the slicer to calculate how close it should put the extrusion lines. The slicer will adjust the flow rate accordingly. For example, if you need to fill a 2 mm wide area, this can be done by using 5 parallel lines of 0.4 mm extrusion width or 4 parallel lines of 0.5 mm extrusion width. This is basically independent of the actual nozzle diameter.

I am sorry for your trouble with this material. I happen to have the exact same black PrimaSelect PETG and I was so disappointed when I started using it that I more or less gave up on it. I prioritize accuracy and surface look and found that this material was the worst I ever tried. It always ended up with a mess of filament on the nozzle tip and the bridging and overhang performance was very poor. Also layer bonding wasn't exceptional, unless you print at max. nozzle temperature (235 °C).
After I read your thread I decided to give it another try and fine tune my settings, because after all your results looked better than mine.
Now I print on BuildTak, 80 °C bead temperature for first layer, then reduced to 60 °C for the following layers. 0.4 mm extrusion width. Nozzle at 230 °C. 1 mm retraction and LIN_ADVANCE K = 110. I print the first layer with very low speed (125 mm/s), then I get very good adhesion to the BuildTak. Default printing speed is 500 mm/s. I also have the fan set to 15% for layer 2 and above.
LIN_ADVANCE seems to have a great effect on this PETG. I found that it needs K=110 for a direct drive Bondtech. This is around twice as much as my PLA needs. 3DBenchy looks decent, but not as good as with ABS or PLA:
All.jpg

I didn't try yet to print larger models with these new settings.
Maybe I will order some eSun PETG just to see if this PrimaSelect PETG is worse than other brands. PrimaSelect PLA is a wonderful material, so I trusted that PrimaSelect PETG would also be good, but maybe it is not.

Raess
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Re: PETG Settings

Postby Raess » Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:37 am

@ABH, that Looks alright, better then my Benchys. I am now testing to print at 240C too see what happens. Do you have an extra cooling fan mounted?
Not sure that I can run the Lin_advance, I run the BLtouch. Any suggestions there?

I will continue trying to solve thiS. As said earlier i bought over 8kg with the PETG. :S
Not
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Raess
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Re: PETG Settings

Postby Raess » Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:13 am

@ABH. Tried a new BuildTak sheet and cracked the temperature up to 240C when printing the motor mounts. Printed with 10% infill and 2 shells. They layer bond is actually so hard I can’t even brake them now. Not very nice. But hey, I need structure strength. :)
IMG_1987.jpg

IMG_1988.jpg
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ABH
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Re: PETG Settings

Postby ABH » Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:55 am

The reason I went "down" to 230 deg was to improve overhangs, but if you don't need good overhang performance then it is probably better to prioritize good layer bonding. In my experience, going below 230 gives worse layer bonding and better overhangs; going above 230 deg gives better layer bonding and worse overhangs, so I guess it depends on what you are printing how to set this critical compromise temperature.
Compared to "old fashioned" ABS, this PETG material is by far more critical to tune.

Raess
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Re: PETG Settings

Postby Raess » Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:26 am

I will continue trying to tune it. I found the bridging best at around 220-225. But Layer adhesions was not good enough. I am now running buildTak and the bed adhesions is great with 85C, Almost to good, actually the first layer broke before I could get it of the surface on a warm bed.. :-)

Note: I also adjusted the nozzle height too 0.1mm closer.

So a couple of questions
Why do you drop bed to 60C after first layer?
Do you use an extra fan? besides the two mounted? In that case how Can you reduce the speed of them at 20%?

I have soon printed 2.2Kg with this filament with a great/successful print :?
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ABH
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Re: PETG Settings

Postby ABH » Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:15 am

I have a single extruder printer that has a dedicated model cooling fan on the right side. I use a custom fan/duct, but also the stock printer has this model cooling fan that can be controlled from firmware. For a dual nozzle printer I guess you have to adjust the air flow by the small flap on the bottom of the fan duct.

I drop the bed temperature to 60 deg after layer 1 because the primary reason for going to 80 deg for the first layer is to increase the adhesion to the Buildtak. I think 80 deg. is in general too high a bed temp. for PETG and will probably increase the overhang/bridging problems. I don't remember if I ever verified this, but if it is not necessary to use a high bed temperature, then why do it?

Raess
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Re: PETG Settings

Postby Raess » Tue Feb 27, 2018 7:38 am

@ABH. I agree. But I don't also want the risk of lifting on a longer print. :)

So I have run some tests and here is the final results.
a actual part for the robot partly printed. to check first layer and bed adhesion. Also easier to see signs of warping.

Filament temperature 240C
Heat bed 80C (First 2 layer, then 70C)
Flowrate 98%
Top / Bottom fill 95%
First layer speed 15mm/s
Default speed at 35mm/s
Fan Covers ON
Blower fan at 40% @layer 2
Infill 10%
3 shells
Brim 10 strings.

IMG_2007.jpg

IMG_2009.jpg

IMG_2010.jpg

IMG_2011.jpg


Summary:

A very strong structure strength, NOT Breakable and also a bit flexible.
First layer OK.
Bed adhesion Almost too strong. (First Layer a bit destroyed when trying to remove the part)
No sign of Warping or Curling
Layers are very strong bonded and the look are OK.
Top Layer looks OK (Some minor colar changes at the top)
minor nozzle oozing and stringing in the first 2 layers.

I am pretty pleased with this print. The overall quality is good. The strength is very good with only 10% infill. Layers looks very nice and smooth and they seems to be bonded very hard together. The brim actually was sticking to hard to the print causing the a minor defect on the first layer when trying to remove the part from the BuildTak. Maybe I will try to print without brim,  because of the great bed adhesion and drop the temperature to 75C on the Heat Bed.

I think this is as good as it gets with my basic knowledge of 3D printing. I started With 3D printing only 2 months ago and still have a lot to learn. But hey, that is one of the parts I enjoy, to learn. So tonight I will mount a new spool of the PrimaSelect PETG and try to actually print the part again. I prioritize structure strength before minor defects. I need a solid part thats going to last and have the strength needed to build a robot with good stability. So For this filament 240C seems perfect, creating a rock solid bond between the layers.
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zemlin
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Re: PETG Settings

Postby zemlin » Tue Feb 27, 2018 9:21 pm

I had a 21 hour print finish up yesterday - eSun PETG printing at 240C, 80mm/s ... one of the fan covers fell off part-way through the print. I could tell exactly where it happened. Layer bond strength tanked on the part at that point and legs on 75% of the part practically fell off when flexed. The 4 legs on the side of the nozzle where the fan cover was still on ... super solid and when flexed to the breaking point (hard to do) fractured beautifully not following layer lines at all.

Don't even think about adding cooling!

ABH
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Re: PETG Settings

Postby ABH » Wed Feb 28, 2018 8:10 pm

Model fan: It all depends on what you are printing. If you need great details, rely on bridging and good overhangs, then, at least with PrimaSelect PETG you need to compromise on optimal layer bonding either by reducing the nozzle temperature or adding fan cooling. Of course, if you are printing a simple model that doesn't need these finer details, you can prioritize stronger layer bonding. I would be very interested in learning if you have different experience with for example eSun PETG. Can you print a nice looking 3DBenchy in PETG with settings that are optimized for max. layer bonding?

Raess
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Re: PETG Settings

Postby Raess » Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:29 am

@zemlin Do you mean to print without ANY active cooling? or do you still use the original fans without covers?
If found that printing printing without any cooling will cause a quite messy print. So I Set a blower fan at 40% and with covers mounted on the other fans. A compromise between details and layer strength.

I found the bridging at 40% cooling is very close to the limit on where I can get a good model. I have minor problems with bridging on specific parts on the robot. Layer 1-3 on the bottom layers and 1-3 on the top layers have a very high risk making a big mess if i decease cooling below 40% (40% also makes a bit of a mess but the printer seems able to handle that with decent result).

Anyways I managed to finally successfully Print my part. (the part is completely untouched and straight out of the printer)
IMG_2037.jpg

IMG_2038.jpg

IMG_2044.jpg


Here is the latest post on the 3D printed Valify Robot Lawnmower http://valify.se/2018/03/01/success-first-part-for-the-robot-is-printed/
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