Bad Layers again

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Tinkerer
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Bad Layers again

Postby Tinkerer » Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:43 pm

Please,
can somebody help me with this problem (pls. see picture)?

I keep getting inferior print results from my superior best of breed leading edge standard raising Raise3d-printer...

Why do I always get these bad layers in my prints?

The printer has just been returned from the dealer who exchanged certain parts, including the breakout board
and the stepper motor drivers.

Is this machine doomed??

BadBadBad.jpg


Filament used is PETG (white) at 245°C and Polywood at 210°C.
There are always some bad layers - these are not shifted but smaller in diameter than the layers below and above.
The prints look crappy as being made by a 200,-€ China-DIY-Kit-printer - I can't believe this!
...there's nothing like the smell of fresh ABS in the morning...

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Bad Layers again

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:07 am

Have you ever tried with Temperature Tower for PETG? It looks like extrusion problem.
For poly-wood, the problem is no extruding or also bad surface?

Tinkerer
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Re: Bad Layers again

Postby Tinkerer » Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:31 pm

Hi Vicky,

if you take a close look at the PolyWood-print, you see there is a horizontal defect at the same height as with the PETG:
BadBadBad.jpg


I think it's less visible at PolyWood because that material has some sort of smoothing effect.

I did a PLA-Print (Raise3D PLA « 205°C) today and found the same problem:
BadBadBad2.jpg


Interestingly the defects are always within the first 15 mm of height of the prints.
And nearly always at the same height.

If that is an extrusion problem - what should be checked?
(Note: I have a bondtech extruder installed)

Could it be some sort of mechanical or electrical problem as well?

I was watching the last (PLA) print very closely but could neither hear nor see anything special.
Except one thing:
The temperature of the nozzle did vary between 201 and 207°C all the time during the print.
So this variation also took place while the upper part printed - which looks fine.
I even tried the PID-autotune already (before the PLA-print) but that seems to have no effect.
...there's nothing like the smell of fresh ABS in the morning...

Tinkerer
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Re: Bad Layers again

Postby Tinkerer » Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:11 pm

P.S.:

just recognized that the inner bottom of the print looks ugly as well.
IMG_3985.JPG


Is that some temperature-related problem?
Again, it was printed at 205°C - which is the lowest temp. as of the specs written on the
packaging of this Raise3D-PLA.
...there's nothing like the smell of fresh ABS in the morning...

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Michael.P@Raise3D
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Re: Bad Layers again

Postby Michael.P@Raise3D » Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:55 am

Hi tinkerer,

Take a look and make sure the Z-Axis screws are not tightened down. This would be my first thought. Secondly this seems like a mechanical issue being that it happens across multiple prints. Send us a ticket so we can better assist you further.
Z-Gantry screws.jpg
Michael Petitclerc, Technician
Tel: +888 963 9028
Web: http://www.raise3d.com

Tinkerer
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Re: Bad Layers again

Postby Tinkerer » Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:15 am

Hi Michael,

thanks for the hint reg. the Z-Axis screws. Those are loose, already checked.

I did raise a ticket as advised.

Any other ideas?
...there's nothing like the smell of fresh ABS in the morning...

zemlin
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Re: Bad Layers again

Postby zemlin » Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:28 pm

Have you changed your Z-Axis speed, acceleration, or jerk settings? If so, you may have exceeded the capability of the motor.

Tinkerer
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Re: Bad Layers again

Postby Tinkerer » Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:23 pm

Thanks for the tip but no, I am printing with standard settings here regarding speed.
By the way - where can you adjust acceleration/jerk in ideaMaker?
...there's nothing like the smell of fresh ABS in the morning...

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Bad Layers again

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:32 am

Is it possible to ask some close pictures of your hotend from different directions?

Tinkerer
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Re: Bad Layers again

Postby Tinkerer » Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:36 pm

I went to the N2 to take the requested photos.
This is what the display said:
DSC_4021_1.jpg


The printer was in idle mode, the print bed temperature was set to 60°C
to preheat the build room for a Nylon-Test - since this stuff warps as hell.
It did preheat for about 30 min. until then.

Will take pictures of the hotend soon.
Is there anything in particular that you'd want to see?

Best
Matthias
...there's nothing like the smell of fresh ABS in the morning...

Tinkerer
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Re: Bad Layers again

Postby Tinkerer » Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:45 pm

Some pictures - please let me know if any other perspective is needed.
DSC_4024.JPG


IMG_3991.JPG


IMG_3992.JPG


IMG_3995.JPG
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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Bad Layers again

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:55 am

Tinkerer wrote:I went to the N2 to take the requested photos.
This is what the display said:
DSC_4021_1.jpg


The printer was in idle mode, the print bed temperature was set to 60°C
to preheat the build room for a Nylon-Test - since this stuff warps as hell.
It did preheat for about 30 min. until then.

Will take pictures of the hotend soon.
Is there anything in particular that you'd want to see?

Best
Matthias


Would you like to advise which version of motion board firmware is currently installed in your machine? Is it possible for you to reproduce the same again? If possible, we'd like to ask for the serial log of your machine when the error appears to debug the firmware.

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Bad Layers again

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:01 am

Tinkerer wrote:Some pictures - please let me know if any other perspective is needed.
DSC_4024.JPG


IMG_3991.JPG


IMG_3992.JPG


IMG_3995.JPG


Seems no obvious oozing between the nozzle and heating block.
Is that the layer problem starts to happen after you get the machine back from the supplier for repairing? Do you know what they have replaced on this machine and what kinds of hardware adjustments they have done on it? Is the Bondtech newly installed on your machine? Did the extrusion work properly before with Bondtech?

Tinkerer
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Re: Bad Layers again

Postby Tinkerer » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:35 am

The versions are:
IMG_4006.JPG


I will give it a try today to reproduce the error and provide the log if so.

The printer did have such layer issues already before it went to repair but then those "bad layers" happened randomly all across the heigth of the objects. Now they happen mainly in the heigth range up to ~18mm and seem to be always in the same height.

As far as I know they have installed a new X-axix rod in the rear, installed new X-Y-Stepper drivers, and a new breakout board.
I do not know what adjustments have been made in addition.

I did install the bondtech extruder I think early November after having problems with flexible filament (there's a thread about that in the forum).
Despite the fact that I could print that after installing I did not recognize any changes in the prints reg. errors.
Btw. - the bondtech was installed following bondtechs instructions, including adjustment of the extruder stepper drivers (Vref to 0.5V) + adjusting the e-steps (415).
...there's nothing like the smell of fresh ABS in the morning...

Tinkerer
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Location: Germany

Re: Bad Layers again

Postby Tinkerer » Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:05 pm

So it just happened again:
IMG_4012.JPG


The log says:

2017-12-07T19:46:28.827 CET| raisetouch| serial: Error:Thermal Runaway, system stopped! Heater_ID:
2017-12-07T19:46:28.827 CET| raisetouch| serial: -1
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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Bad Layers again

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:52 am

Is that the one here? Will take a look. Thanks a lot!
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5144&p=22389#p22384

Tinkerer
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Re: Bad Layers again

Postby Tinkerer » Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:40 am

Ye, this is the one N2 with various challenges...

I started a new thread to further discuss the thermal runaway issue:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5151
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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Bad Layers again

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Sun Dec 10, 2017 10:57 am

From the log, the heated bed's temperature dropped from 105C (the set value) after reaching it to ninty something. I'm currently not sure, confirming with electronic engineers, but seems should be some hardware problem.

Tinkerer
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Re: Bad Layers again

Postby Tinkerer » Sun Dec 10, 2017 3:12 pm

105°? Not shure right now, I thought I'd set it to 80°C.
But even 105°C should work, shouldn't it?

Looking forward for the answer from your engineers.

Hardware error could be.
(in a grim sense of humor I'd call my N2 an hardware error any way;-)
...there's nothing like the smell of fresh ABS in the morning...

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Bad Layers again

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Mon Dec 11, 2017 9:10 am

If you set the target as 80C, but it shows in log is 105C, that is also abnormal.

Anyway, should be a hardware problem, but not sure whether it is due to motion board or heated bed. Our support engineer on ticket will help you check out the root.


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