Over extruding, nozzel deep in molten materials Poly PC and Hips help please

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Spikeysonic
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Over extruding, nozzel deep in molten materials Poly PC and Hips help please

Postby Spikeysonic » Thu Jul 06, 2017 7:33 pm

I have now got a 0.8 nozzle to go and try with flex materials but first tried it today in the left with Poly PC Clear and Hipps (Green) (right). Did some testing trying to print the fan air guide. Have not seen the serial error come up but when I tried printing the fan cover it see,ed to over extrude and rub the nozzle in the hot material a few mm deep. See pics, it did worse with the Poly PC deep in a lump of it. Just extruding too Much deeper than its raising up so the nozzel moves deep in the material till cool and lifta it up.

Caught it this time just as it was starting, several times; Switched back to 0.4 nozzel in the left extruder, changed setting back to 0.4 and pretty much the same result seeing thinkly pinted hipps in the making of the raft, the nozzle sliding in the hot plastice then ripping that part of the raft up.

Whatsa going on?

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walshlg
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Re: Over extruding, nozzel deep in molten materials Poly PC and Hips help please

Postby walshlg » Fri Jul 07, 2017 3:59 pm

2 things immediately come to mind:
1) are you sure that the nozzles are aligned perfectly?
2) edge curl, watch for edge curl. I have now seen it in almost every material I've printed under certain circumstance- it is most likely to occur on a slanted wall/ shell or when printing an unsupported out and back loop. The fix is more cooling, insulate the hotend and print slower.

last thought for now, did you enable z-hop?

Spikeysonic
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Re: Over extruding, nozzel deep in molten materials Poly PC and Hips help please

Postby Spikeysonic » Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:01 am

1mm z loop. What is edge curl? what is " it is most likely to occur on a slanted wall/ shell or when printing an unsupported out and back loop."

how is the hot end insulated? and how do I do more cooling? please

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walshlg
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Re: Over extruding, nozzel deep in molten materials Poly PC and Hips help please

Postby walshlg » Mon Jul 10, 2017 3:29 pm

edge curl is where you are printing something that has a slanted wall. Without a lot of cooling the plastic doesn't set firm between layers and the edge tends to curl upward and this tends to catch the nozzle causing all sorts of problems. I need to do a tutorial on insulation - search the forum the directions have been posted, also look on youtube for a video

Spikeysonic
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Re: Over extruding, nozzel deep in molten materials Poly PC and Hips help please

Postby Spikeysonic » Mon Jul 10, 2017 6:30 pm

Ah I thought it was when the filmen curlsnback around the nozzel as it comes out, then sticks and more joins it, normally see this as loading or just as it starts to come out, over time this builds up... Whats that?

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walshlg
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Re: Over extruding, nozzel deep in molten materials Poly PC and Hips help please

Postby walshlg » Wed Jul 12, 2017 1:45 pm

the filament rarely comes out straight down, it seems to curl at least a bit most of the time so I like to load and use the scraper to get it loose hanging down by the pull of gravity. Then when I start this long piece helps pull down and drag on the plate before printing. I almost always grab this as it moves to start the plate.

Spikeysonic
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Re: Over extruding, nozzel deep in molten materials Poly PC and Hips help please

Postby Spikeysonic » Wed Jul 12, 2017 1:57 pm

Thats fine when its just loading but when printing is it the curl that causes the plastic to stick and build up on the nossel and hot end getting bigger and bigger. not orinting the ovject but instead acting as a print shredding battering ram lead8ng to big mess failed print and blocked hot end ?

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walshlg
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Re: Over extruding, nozzel deep in molten materials Poly PC and Hips help please

Postby walshlg » Thu Jul 13, 2017 4:35 pm

put up some pictures printing the calibration cube. Please note your settings

firesped
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Re: Over extruding, nozzel deep in molten materials Poly PC and Hips help please

Postby firesped » Thu Jul 13, 2017 8:28 pm

HIPS and PC need no cooling, like ABS. HIPS will print very well on this printer. at least the one I have does. The bigger issue is, you don't really need to use HIPS, unless you have certain requirements.
RL name: Michael Nolen
printers:
raise3D N2 kickstarter Early Bird
Trinus Deluxe (running smoothieware on Azteeg X5 GT board)
Monoprice Maker Select v2

EldRick
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Re: Over extruding, nozzel deep in molten materials Poly PC and Hips help please

Postby EldRick » Fri Jul 14, 2017 12:06 am

Curious - what requirements would point to HIPS?

Jetguy
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Re: Over extruding, nozzel deep in molten materials Poly PC and Hips help please

Postby Jetguy » Fri Jul 14, 2017 12:32 am

When you want to print ABS with support material HIPS can be removed by using D-limonene cleaner that supposedly does not affect ABS. This does vary greatly with formulation of the ABS and concentration of the D-limonene.
https://www.fargo3dprinting.com/using-d ... tructures/
https://airwolf3d.com/3d-printer-suppor ... -limonene/

Being honest, I played with this before Raise 3D even existed, but more or less quit printing ABS for warping and smell reasons, as other plastics like PET-G and Raptor high temp PLA more or less handles my previous prints where I would use ABS.
http://www.makergeeks.com/rasepla.html

firesped
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Re: Over extruding, nozzel deep in molten materials Poly PC and Hips help please

Postby firesped » Fri Jul 14, 2017 12:36 am

So PET-G doesn't warp like ABS?
RL name: Michael Nolen
printers:
raise3D N2 kickstarter Early Bird
Trinus Deluxe (running smoothieware on Azteeg X5 GT board)
Monoprice Maker Select v2

Jetguy
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Re: Over extruding, nozzel deep in molten materials Poly PC and Hips help please

Postby Jetguy » Fri Jul 14, 2017 12:52 am

PET-G is lower shrinkage and thus less tendency to warp like ABS.
PET typically used for water bottles is blow molded, not injection molded.
https://all3dp.com/petg-filament-3d-printing/
The unique benefits of PETG filament for FDM 3D printing
•PETG filament has the reputation of combining the functionality of ABS (stronger, temperature resistant, more durable) and reliability of PLA (easy to print) in one material.
•The layer adhesion is usually excellent.
•Reduced potential of warping or shrinking of your prints.


Remember, ABS was formulated to shrink to pull out of injection molds. Conversely, the 3D printing process layer by layer where liquid is put down and cools to solidify, shrinks every single layer building up stress. At best, we can reduce this stress by limiting the shrinkage by maintaining a higher temp of the previous layer so it only barely solidifies but stays well above room temp, and then after all layers are done, then allow the entire part as one piece to cool to room temp all at once.

Good technical discussion over here about halfway down by the moderator @gr5 https://ultimaker.com/en/community/8291 ... -shrinkage

firesped
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Re: Over extruding, nozzel deep in molten materials Poly PC and Hips help please

Postby firesped » Fri Jul 14, 2017 1:24 am

so my assessment of ABS printing is correct, you ideally want a heated chamber to print it. But based on other facts of the raise3d printer, doing that may cause parts of the printer to warp and become damaged. You would want an all metal top plate replacement. Which would cost a lot of money I bed. Not sure what material the sides would need to be.

I have some PETG I picked up a while back, so I will give that a try for what I am working on.
RL name: Michael Nolen
printers:
raise3D N2 kickstarter Early Bird
Trinus Deluxe (running smoothieware on Azteeg X5 GT board)
Monoprice Maker Select v2

Jetguy
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Re: Over extruding, nozzel deep in molten materials Poly PC and Hips help please

Postby Jetguy » Fri Jul 14, 2017 1:29 am

My biggest negative experience with PET-G is it's prone to fine strings or ooze. This comes from the higher extrusion temps and those are required to get the best layer bonds so it's a tradeoff. Otherwise it is like they say, much less prone to warping, less hard on the machine with lower bed and chamber temps, just some prints might get a little fuzz going between parts. Retraction won't "fix" it, it's just a function of the polymer.

Spikeysonic
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Re: Over extruding, nozzel deep in molten materials Poly PC and Hips help please

Postby Spikeysonic » Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:38 am

Laptop broke need to replace will update as I can, I have been tryign to use PVA, Poly Support, and now Hips to find some easy to remove support material, open to other suggesthins. May try high t lay next. But mainly nearly everything ive tried other than PVA has resulted in failed prints


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