Trouble with extruded filament accumulating on nozzle

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TonicaRolf
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Trouble with extruded filament accumulating on nozzle

Postby TonicaRolf » Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:11 am

Hey everyone,

I have been setting up and printing a lot of test prints on a brand new Raise3D N2+. At first there were no problems whatsoever, everything worked straight out of the box with PLA as supplied from Raise3D, but changing to ABS caused some problems.

I have earlier experience with Ultimaker printers, and I know about the challenges of printing ABS, so I am not entirely green :D

Anyway what happens is:

-After zeroing, the printer extrudes ~200mm. However all of this curls up around the nozzle regardless of cooling (with/without blocking), and must be helped to go away, or else raft will not print
-The printer starts printing a raft (usually goes well)
-The printer starts printing the component(s). As long as the bottom shell is being printed, no issues occur
-When the printer starts jumping from either one area of the part being printed to another, or when the printer starts jumping from component to component, the curling around the nozzle will happen again. This is not an issue in short jumps, I estimate 15-20mm max, but larger than that and simply touching the next component does not scrape it off, and the print will fail.

I have tried a few things to explore the issue.

-I tried a nozzle cleaning (Ultimaker Atomic Cleaning-style), but the nozzle came out clean.
-I tried replacing the nozzle to verify that the nozzle was not the problem. This assumption was correct, as a brand new nozzle had exactly the same problem with curling.
-I tried printing both with and without the fan duct blockers. Both still curled.
-I tried printing with a lower feed rate and a higher feed rate. Still curling occurs.
-I tried cleaning the nozzle again, and going back to PLA just to verify it was not the ABS that was the problem. Curling still occurred. Nonetheless I tried reprinting a test print I had done earlier in PLA. It failed to print due to curling.
-After reverting to ABS again, I tried to print several single small test subjects while changing the standard height of the build platform. This went well, and the results were pretty much perfect, so I tried a larger subject with travel move again. These prints failed.

My print settings were in both cases the default settings in the ideamaker slicer for PLA 1.75mm Hot End@Standard speed settings and ABS 1.75mm Hot End@Standard Speed respectively.

I tried also heating up the bed to 110 degrees instead of 100 to improve sticking to the platform, but the problem still occured.

I hope someone has some ideas :D I am reaching the end of my own ideas for helping the problem, and I have consultet the online quick help and FAQs for doing the above troubleshooting.

Thanks in advance! I can supply a video of the curling problem occuring if desired, catching the layer separation is more difficult. Below are some pics showing print results.

Image
Succesful PLA test print

Image
Succesful PLA print

Image
Overcooled ABS print with layer separation - however this one actually completed printing without being scraped off to the side.

Image
Testing the jumping from place to place - oozing is visible as well as lumps of carbonized ABS. These lumps come from being stuck to the heated nozzle and then being scraped off eventually by the print.

Image
Succesful ABS print - this one my guess is was succesful because at no point did the printer have to do any sort of jumps, and thus the curling issue was never allowed to happen.

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walshlg
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Re: Trouble with extruded filament accumulating on nozzle

Postby walshlg » Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:17 pm

for edge curling, especially PLA, you need to insulate your hotend

TonicaRolf
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Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:12 am

Re: Trouble with extruded filament accumulating on nozzle

Postby TonicaRolf » Thu Apr 27, 2017 7:04 am

Most of the prints I am going to do on this printer will be ABS.

How do I go about insulating my hot end? Is there some parts I can print to cover it?

Here is an example of what happens during printing:
Image
ABS curling around the nozzle (even when no flow is set)

Image
Failed print due to curling. Notice the nozzle is still covered in a blob of ABS, and that other chunks have come loose earlier. Notice also that the raft was in fact printed without any trouble as it was a single part, but as the printer changed to printing 4 small circular parts separately the curling tore the raft loose and created these blobs.

Image
Single-component part printed 5 minutes after cleaning up the mess above on the exact same setting - no trouble whatsoever

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Mecha_Monster
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Re: Trouble with extruded filament accumulating on nozzle

Postby Mecha_Monster » Thu Apr 27, 2017 1:51 pm

TonicaRolf wrote:Hey everyone,

...everything worked straight out of the box with PLA as supplied from Raise3D, but changing to ABS caused some problems.


That's exactly what happened to me 8 moths ago.

Long story short; I printed too hot and the ABS carbonized, it is extremely difficult to remove from inside of the nozzle, you have to disassemble it, and using a torch and PLA (melted PLA to pull the debris from inside of the nozzle, like silly putty). The "curling" occurs because the inner diameter is not perfect (by debris, carbonized remnants or even if you hit the tip with the plate and it deformed) and the extruded filament tends to be pushed more to one side than the other.

Judging by your pictures, it is highly likely that you have "carbonized crust" inside of the nozzle, because there is also outside.

You will have to disassemble that thing and deeply clean it, verify by putting it against light to ensure that the light can go all the way through the inner diameter (a perfect circle).

Raise3D thermocouplers are more accurate than those of other brands, therefore it is more easy to burn the filament in your first setup (for example, maybe you where printing at 250 deg in other printer, but most likely it was actually 235). ABS do not require that much temperature

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walshlg
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Re: Trouble with extruded filament accumulating on nozzle

Postby walshlg » Thu Apr 27, 2017 8:12 pm

insulation is done several ways, some, John, use an insulated Silicon tube, that made me crazy. I use ceramic "tape" (paper) that I cover with Kapton tape. Check uTub for vids, I will try to post a quick tutorial when I have time.

TonicaRolf
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Re: Trouble with extruded filament accumulating on nozzle

Postby TonicaRolf » Mon May 01, 2017 6:50 am

Thanks for the replies guys!

Mecha Monster: Sounds very much like my theory. I am going to try and take apart the hot end and nozzle today and take a closer look, possibly re-drill the hole with a 0.4mm drill bit, if not use one of my spare nozzles.

Walshlg: Ceramic tape? You mean the white teflon tape used for pipe threads? I have that so I would be able to try it out.

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jmp
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Re: Trouble with extruded filament accumulating on nozzle

Postby jmp » Mon May 01, 2017 12:13 pm

TonicaRolf wrote:
Walshlg: Ceramic tape? You mean the white teflon tape used for pipe threads? I have that so I would be able to try it out.


He is definitely not talking about that. This won't fit the raise3d heat block but it is an example of what he is talking about
https://www.fargo3dprinting.com/product ... tion-tape/
RL Name: Jason Preuss Thingiverse: JMP Youtube:http://youtube.com/c/patterntoprint Website: http://www.patterntoprint.com

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walshlg
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Re: Trouble with extruded filament accumulating on nozzle

Postby walshlg » Mon May 01, 2017 4:30 pm

https://www.amazon.com/Ceramic-Fiber-Pa ... ramic+tape

and hold on / cover with 1" wide Kapton Tape

TonicaRolf
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Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:12 am

Re: Trouble with extruded filament accumulating on nozzle

Postby TonicaRolf » Thu May 04, 2017 11:55 am

Right, got it.

I did a proper cleaning of the nozzle as described and it has reduced the curling tremendously. I have also tried to improve the cooling (for PLA) by printing some air ducts and that has also helped the problem.

Thanks for your support, looks like steady sailing for now!

3dtech
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Re: Trouble with extruded filament accumulating on nozzle

Postby 3dtech » Wed Aug 09, 2017 6:52 am

1. It depends on the tape you're using. Not every painting tape works - even if it is a blue one ;-) .

2. The same with hairspray. Most of them don't work. So use another tape (or makerbots blue tape) or e.g. "Garnier fructis style ultra strong" hairspray.

3. After such a "mess" clean your smartextruder as good as possible. The nozzle needs to be easily movable.



If you're sure your tape/spray will work, your smartextruder is clean and works and your soft- and firmware are up to date, check the distance between plate and nozzle. Probably you need to make a manual z-axis offset. 3d printing chennai bangalore kolkata lucknow kerala karnataka andhra pradesh india



If all of this won't work - exchange your smartextruder.


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