Cyanoacrylate (Super Glue) to greatly improve adhesion

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Mecha_Monster
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Cyanoacrylate (Super Glue) to greatly improve adhesion

Postby Mecha_Monster » Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:02 pm

Hello,

So far Buildtak have been great to adhere PLA and Polycarbonate blends (Polymaker PC-Max), but somehow I still struggled a lot to properly adhere ABS (IC3D brand). I didn't want to stop using ABS because so far that is the material that gives me the better results (better surface quality than any PLA brand, better support removal that any other material or brand), and considering that I print things that coverts about >50% the buildplate area, the detachment issue is very concerning...

Anyhow, I bought a small bottle of super glue (Cyanoacrylate) and applied a thin layer over all the buildtak and let it dry for about 2 hours (to ensure that it is completely dry, you don't want any fumes inside of your printer). Once the glue is dry, it does nor smell not sticks to your bare hands. It worked surprisingly good, even the really big prints with raft stick to it, zero detachments. I am really really impressed. So far I had print about 10+ objects over the same glue layer.

This is still an experiment in process. I have printed everything with a raft (because all those things are organic shapes that requires a lot of support) so I am not sure about how clean would be a print without a raft.

The results are promising. Let me know what you think

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walshlg
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Re: Cyanoacrylate (Super Glue) to greatly improve adhesion

Postby walshlg » Mon Oct 02, 2017 12:46 am

Nice experiment. Will be interesting to see if it builds up over time

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Julia Truchsess
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Re: Cyanoacrylate (Super Glue) to greatly improve adhesion

Postby Julia Truchsess » Mon Oct 02, 2017 3:22 pm

Interesting. Which brand/type of CA glue? There are many, many variations and consistencies available. How did you apply and spread it evenly? Is it possible to remove the glue layer after printing, to avoid buildup over time and many prints?

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Brandon
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Re: Cyanoacrylate (Super Glue) to greatly improve adhesion

Postby Brandon » Mon Oct 02, 2017 6:58 pm

Here are a few other methods you could look into:

There are some people that suggest a ABS Acetone mix is best on a glass surface.

https://www.matterhackers.com/news/how- ... and-slurry

Also using the glass and washable school glue this is the process we like to use at our office when not using the Buildtak

Here is an article that covers that and more

http://richrap.blogspot.com/2015/01/sti ... t-bed.html

I look forward to hearing how your experiment goes.

Targo
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Re: Cyanoacrylate (Super Glue) to greatly improve adhesion

Postby Targo » Wed Oct 04, 2017 7:38 am

I print very much ABS, as a carrier plate I use FR4 board material in thickness 0.5 or 1mm. The plate is treated once with coarse abrasive paper (grit 60). Subsequently, I cover the plate with a solution of acetone and dissolved ABS (natural). I repeat the recall as needed and only takes seconds. I also use the plate for all other materials. The table temperature for ABS is 110 °.
Mostly I print without raft and brim. The adhesion is often so strong that I must remove the plate. By bending, the parts can then simply be released.

zemlin
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Re: Cyanoacrylate (Super Glue) to greatly improve adhesion

Postby zemlin » Fri Oct 27, 2017 1:58 pm

I don't get my N2+ until Monday, but I print a lot of ABS - Hatchbox is my preferred brand. I print on PEI sheet over aluminum at 100C. I scuff the surface with 1500 grit paper and then keep it clean by wiping with acetone between builds. If you over-squash the first layer you can break parts trying to remove them, but if not over-squashed adhesion is great and finished parts pop right off cleanly.

I have 1/4" MIC6 aluminum and PEI sheets (.06" thick) ready to go onto the N2 when it arrives. I use 3M 468MP adhesive sheets to bond the PEI to the aluminum.

The PEI also works great for PETG at 85C.

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Re: Cyanoacrylate (Super Glue) to greatly improve adhesion

Postby Vice Chief » Fri Oct 27, 2017 4:37 pm

Thanks for the very specific info, Zemlin.

Am I understanding right that you bond the PEI sheet onto the MIC6 AL sheet and then place the stackup on the heated build platform? And you're using MIC6 for its flatness?

I've been using 6mm borosilicate glass to get things good and flat, but the thermal conductivity is obviously not as good as aluminum.

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Re: Cyanoacrylate (Super Glue) to greatly improve adhesion

Postby zemlin » Fri Oct 27, 2017 5:08 pm

Vice Chief wrote:Thanks for the very specific info, Zemlin.

Am I understanding right that you bond the PEI sheet onto the MIC6 AL sheet and then place the stackup on the heated build platform? And you're using MIC6 for its flatness?


Yes, and Yes.

EldRick
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Re: Cyanoacrylate (Super Glue) to greatly improve adhesion

Postby EldRick » Fri Oct 27, 2017 6:14 pm

I use gluestick on glass for ABS, and even for tough prints, rarely see any lack of adhesion. You need 2-3 coats of the gluestick for a slightly rough surface, applied on a cold bed.
You can then print up to a dozen prints on the same spot - just let the piece cool before removal, or you may remove glue from the glass.

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Michael.P@Raise3D
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Re: Cyanoacrylate (Super Glue) to greatly improve adhesion

Postby Michael.P@Raise3D » Fri Oct 27, 2017 6:45 pm

@EldRick

I prefer to load the glue onto the bed while hot, it does apply more glue than a cold plate however it gets the job done!
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Julia Truchsess
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Re: Cyanoacrylate (Super Glue) to greatly improve adhesion

Postby Julia Truchsess » Sat Oct 28, 2017 11:18 pm

I've been using PEI bonded to glass with 3m 486 for quite a while now and love it for PLA and PETG. The only problem I've had was that Form Futura "Stone Fill" PLA bonded to it permanently and I had to remove that PEI sheet. I never experienced this issue with any other PLA or PETG, prints have always come off easily. Getting the 486 off of the glass was a nightmare involving a lot of acetone, and in hindsight I'd have been better off buying new glass and starting over. Putting the 486 on is tricky as well - if you make a mistake you have a big problem as it's not repositionable.

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Re: Cyanoacrylate (Super Glue) to greatly improve adhesion

Postby DrewPetitclerc » Sun Oct 29, 2017 1:08 am

Michael.P@Raise3D wrote:@EldRick

I prefer to load the glue onto the bed while hot, it does apply more glue than a cold plate however it gets the job done!


I've been using the "Elmer's water soluble Purple glue stick" on glass for a really long time and it really works best if your build plate is really WELL Trammed, also after 2 or 3 applications between prints I stop adding more and start using a wet paper towel square to remelt the glue into a nice thin smooth layer again and this really extends the glue and improves the adhesion, also I let the build plate cool a little so when I go to remove the part it really pops right off.

This method has worked for me on ABS, PLA, Nylon, Wood filled PLA, Metal filled PLA, PETG and all my other plastic types.
A chemist friend at my last job experimented and told me it has something to do with the formula of this one particular brand, he was attempting to print with Nylon and nothing seemed to want to stick to it, this material did, I was not able to follow his explanation as it is not my field of study but he was right.

I use a dial indicator and a lot of patience to get that glass plate TRAMMED!
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