Printing Long Flat Thick Object Warping issue - Suggestion?

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chrons
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2017 4:50 pm

Printing Long Flat Thick Object Warping issue - Suggestion?

Postby chrons » Wed Aug 16, 2017 1:12 am

Hi Guys

I'm trying to print a long flat thick cover and got issue with warping, both end side of model not attach to the buildtac

Any suggestion to print long - wide object perfectly

current setting

Fill density 15%
Shells 3
using raft
layer height 0.22 mm
first layer height 0.2
bed temp 40C
Extruder temp 210

Default Distance nozzle to heat bed slightly lower than 0.2mm

any printer setting suggestion to print long flat object without warping?

thx in advance
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Jetguy
Posts: 1653
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 1:40 am

Re: Printing Long Flat Thick Object Warping issue - Suggestion?

Postby Jetguy » Wed Aug 16, 2017 1:59 am

Clean your build tack before printing with alcohol to remove any chance of fingerprint oils, dirt, or dust
Higher bed temp of 40-60C
Adjust the first layer gap lower- I know you are at the fine line, but in general better adhesion is the closest you can go and not scrape and still extrude without jamming or skipping steps.
Use Brim6-7 lines!!! Brim is like the brim of a hat and aids adhesion but is better than raft with less waste and way easier to remove

chrons
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2017 4:50 pm

Re: Printing Long Flat Thick Object Warping issue - Suggestion?

Postby chrons » Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:23 am

Thx Jet Guy...

1. should I use Brim only instead of Raft?

I also read in simplyfy 3D trouble shooting is because the surface temperature cool faster than the below one.

do u suggest to block the blowing fan, let the layer cool down slower?

Jetguy
Posts: 1653
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 1:40 am

Re: Printing Long Flat Thick Object Warping issue - Suggestion?

Postby Jetguy » Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:45 am

I assume you are using PLA based on your temps and other settings so no, do not block the fan ducts.
I have long been upset with the defaults in both ideamaker and copied over to other slicers like S3D.
40C is simply not enough for good bed adhesion and I use 50C with glass + aquanet hairspray or 60C when using my N2 Plus with it's factory Buildtack surface. I had to edit the default profiles every time I fire up a new install of Ideamaker because that that one right there.
In addition:

You should also preheat the bed 10-15 minutes BEFORE you start the print as it takes time for the surface to reach the actual temp before you go printing a layer on it.

Do not use raft.
This is my opinion, but it's based on years of experience. I am not alone in this train of thought.
Raft is a total waste of time and material and causes more issues than it solves. It's the training wheels of 3D printing when you cannot get a user to properly level and set first layer gap or for that just absolutely impossible project that has such limited surface contact- then raft makes some sense. Raft simply is laying a big flat plastic layer and then you have to go back and try to peal off your print without causing surface damage. It adds more time to the print and again even when it does work impacts the surface finish of the final part.

If you need surface adhesion, ALWAYS choose brim before raft. Brim gives the same effect of surface adhesion. It's more surface area to stick to the bed. It prints faster since it's only a single layer.

Jetguy
Posts: 1653
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 1:40 am

Re: Printing Long Flat Thick Object Warping issue - Suggestion?

Postby Jetguy » Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:49 am

Quote from S3D guides https://www.simplify3d.com/support/arti ... and-brims/

Brims

A Brim is a special type of skirt that is actually attached to the edges of your model. Typically, the brim is printed with a increased number of outlines to create a large ring around your part, similar to the brim of a hat. Brims are often used to hold down the edges of your part, which can prevent warping and help with bed adhesion. The Brim may be a preferred option to the raft (which also helps with adhesion), as the brim can typically be printed much faster and uses far less filament. Once the print is complete, the thin brim can be separated from the solid model and discarded.

Jetguy
Posts: 1653
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 1:40 am

Re: Printing Long Flat Thick Object Warping issue - Suggestion?

Postby Jetguy » Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:09 am

Again, if you read the the guide, they nearly verbatim say what I have been saying for years. https://www.simplify3d.com/support/prin ... to-the-bed

The top things that affect bed adhesion/warping:
#1 The printing filament material. PLA VS ABS VS whatever. The material details is the entire reason why it warps. Different material has different rates of shrinkage and is the primary force behind warping. One color or one brand may react and be more likely to warp than another.

#2 First layer gap and leveling- The only way first layer sticks is the bead of hot plastic must be squished oval to increase surface contact into the bed. If that squish is not even or uniform (bed leveling is what causes it to be uneven) or overall global Z gap (the mechanical screw hitting the Z axis homing switch) ultimately makes or breaks this rule. Again, if there was any one thing that the user is responsible for setting up- this is it at the physical level. This is a skill the user must master and be able to diagnose while watching the skirt or brim go down on the start of a print. You should be getting a go/no-go feel just from the first outline.

#3 Surface prep- clean oil free, fingerprint free correct chemical surface for the material being printed. This is a close second to the above.

#4 Bed temperature specific to the material and bed surface combination. Again, this is a matched set and so the details might be specific to certain combos, but using the wrong heat for the wrong material or bed surface- even if everything else was right can contribute to an adhesion failure. Again, as I pointed out, I feel that the defaults are actually incorrect in Ideamaker and too cold. I MUCH prefer 50-60C bed for PLA adhesion. Again, here is a user setting that should be addressed. The other factor is that in a situation where you are worried about warp ALWAYS preheat the bed long before you print. The wait time for the bed sensor to reach temp at the start of a print does not mean the surface is that temp by the time you start printing. By preheating, now you know first layer is at the right temp.

#5 first layer speed definitely can affect it, but most slicers including Ideamaker and Simplify 3D do have correct first layer speed as defaults settings. So it's unlikely unless the user goes out of their way making adjustments for this to be incorrect.

#6 Last is cooling fans- but this is primarily for high shrinkage materials with a much higher bed setting temperature wise. Again, the rule is, PLA needs cooling, it's a low shrinkage low temp material and needs time and cooling to solidify. ABS and other higher temp plastics need higher ambient heat, higher bed temps are what provides that heat, air cooling via the ducts should be controlled to prevent rapid cooling but again, his is primarily ABS advice. PLA I always print with no lid installed and actually removed the doors and sides of my N1 for completely open cooling. My N2 Plus also currently has the filament side door and rear clear panel removed and the lid is only on when the machine is off as a dust cover.

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Brandon
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Re: Printing Long Flat Thick Object Warping issue - Suggestion?

Postby Brandon » Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:36 pm

What type of filament are you using? What brand? Are you printing with the top cover on the printer?

EldRick
Posts: 103
Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2017 5:55 am

Re: Printing Long Flat Thick Object Warping issue - Suggestion?

Postby EldRick » Wed Aug 16, 2017 4:43 pm

A) 60C for PLA with as much cooling and fan as you can arrange, 100C for ABS with cover and minimal fan for small pieces
B) use glue stick on the glass, not Buildtak
C) Let the piece cool completely while still attached to the bed, so it can anneal and freeze the internal stresses in place

I'm printing several three-hour pieces each day of a 4"x8" solid ABS piece that is 1/8" thick, and I almost never get warping. Bed temp is 100C, extruder 250C. If a corner of a piece comes loose, it's just time to refresh the glue stick or rotate the bed to use fresh spots.

chrons
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2017 4:50 pm

Re: Printing Long Flat Thick Object Warping issue - Suggestion?

Postby chrons » Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:27 am

Thank You for all input in this community!
look what i got this morning! beautifull long plate.
after all of your input. I made following adjustment.

bed temp 60C
brim 10 loops instead of raft
model orrientation changed, make less surface on the heat bed.

:D
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