Y axis coupler - catastrophic failure

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caxton3d
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Y axis coupler - catastrophic failure

Postby caxton3d » Sat Jan 07, 2017 8:04 pm

In a previous post I detailed how the y-axis coupler was loose on a new printer which resulted in loss of registration in the y-axis. Once the coupler was tightened it produced a perfect large print. Heartened by this success I started another larger print only for it to fail. On examination the y-axis coupler had snapped.

Image

Image

I am disappointed that on a printer only 2 weeks old that this has happened. Could the y-axis be excessively stiff placing too much of a load on the coupler, hence the working loose and final failure? What should I do next?

Thanks,

Barry.
Pattern making for the restoration of vintage Dennis Fire Engines

Charles
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Re: Y axis coupler - catastrophic failure

Postby Charles » Sat Jan 07, 2017 8:09 pm

Barry, I'm sure Raise will replace that part for you.

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walshlg
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Re: Y axis coupler - catastrophic failure

Postby walshlg » Sun Jan 08, 2017 1:52 am

these are pretty flexible, it probably had a defect when the coupler was machined.

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Y axis coupler - catastrophic failure

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Mon Jan 09, 2017 5:39 am

We are so sorry about that.
Please share your serial number to whom you bought the printer from. They will contact us to arrange you the replacement.

mtsmetzler
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Re: Y axis coupler - catastrophic failure

Postby mtsmetzler » Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:01 am

Check your motor alignment with the Y shaft. Mine was out of alignment and required some work on the motor mount and a shim to get things to line up correctly. Had the same failure on the X shaft as well, motor alignment was also the cause. These couplers are flexible to a point. It doesn't take to much deflection for a rapid failure.
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RAISE 3D broken Y axis coupler.JPG

caxton3d
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Re: Y axis coupler - catastrophic failure

Postby caxton3d » Tue Jan 10, 2017 2:40 pm

My new coupler arrived today.

Image

The original coupler besides the clamping screws had set screws to locate on the flats on the motor shaft. The new coupler does not have these set screws. Are they necessary? Which is the more appropriate part?

I can only agree with the previous post about motor alignment. The motor is only located by it's screws. There are no dowels or any other means to ensure alignment. It is all a case of accurate assembly work.

I must admit that having looked at FDM 3D printers for some time many of them appeared to have been designed and built in someone's bedroom! The Raise did seem not to fall into this category, but the problem of motor alignment does illustrate that basic engineering techniques like those employed in CNC milling machines could have been adapted to improve the robustness of the printer.
Pattern making for the restoration of vintage Dennis Fire Engines

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Y axis coupler - catastrophic failure

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:45 am

caxton3d wrote:My new coupler arrived today.

Image

The original coupler besides the clamping screws had set screws to locate on the flats on the motor shaft. The new coupler does not have these set screws. Are they necessary? Which is the more appropriate part?

I can only agree with the previous post about motor alignment. The motor is only located by it's screws. There are no dowels or any other means to ensure alignment. It is all a case of accurate assembly work.

I must admit that having looked at FDM 3D printers for some time many of them appeared to have been designed and built in someone's bedroom! The Raise did seem not to fall into this category, but the problem of motor alignment does illustrate that basic engineering techniques like those employed in CNC milling machines could have been adapted to improve the robustness of the printer.

The right one is not our standard spare part.
Please check with your supplier whether they give you some wrong parts by mistake.
We have been using the same one as your left one in our factory from last year to now.

caxton3d
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Re: Y axis coupler - catastrophic failure - yet again

Postby caxton3d » Fri Jan 13, 2017 10:51 am

Image

I fitted the new coupler, checked the alignment and all seemed O.K. I then started off a new big print and 41 hours later the new coupler failed. Where do I go from here? If I fit a further coupler can I really expect it to last?

The motor did seem to be aligned and there did not seem to be any flexing of the coupler during rotation.
Any help would be appreciated as I do not seem to getting anywhere at the moment.

Barry.
Pattern making for the restoration of vintage Dennis Fire Engines

Jetguy
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Re: Y axis coupler - catastrophic failure

Postby Jetguy » Fri Jan 13, 2017 2:26 pm

Sorry you are having problems but you could use alternate style couplers that will better take misalignment.
2 or 3 jaw "Lovejoy" style with rubber or hard material inserts are potentially a method to prevent this failure.
The motor shaft is 5mm the printer side is 8mm
These are more expensive but a better part
https://www.amazon.com/Enpoint-Encoder- ... mm+coupler
Attachments
41DyGV9MPjL.jpg

caxton3d
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Re: Y axis coupler - catastrophic failure

Postby caxton3d » Fri Jan 13, 2017 5:12 pm

Jetguy,

Thanks for the suggestion. I have just ordered one of these couplers up and should be with me on Monday. The hardness of the spider insert was selectable (hard, medium and soft), so for starters I have gone for medium - 92 shore.

Image

My main concern is that there must be an awful lot of Raise printers out there not breaking couplers, so do I have a stiff y-axis which is placing an extra load on the coupler? By 'beefing up' (as we say in England) the coupler, will something else break?

Best wishes,

Barry.
Pattern making for the restoration of vintage Dennis Fire Engines

Jetguy
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Re: Y axis coupler - catastrophic failure

Postby Jetguy » Fri Jan 13, 2017 6:04 pm

No, rotational stiffness is not causing your failure.
#1 You'd be skipping steps like mad, the steppers are not that strong.
#2 You clearly show fatigue stress from misalignment in the broken couplers. For whatever reason, when installed, your machine was not lined up with that motor.

No, nothing else will break. Either you will skip steps if the load exceeds the motor or your new coupler will wear the spider.
I'm betting the bank that upgrading the coupler and that forces you to take it apart to install the motor will correct the issue in a permanent way. Stepper motors can skip steps all day with no damage.

Jetguy
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Re: Y axis coupler - catastrophic failure

Postby Jetguy » Fri Jan 13, 2017 6:15 pm

FWIW, when I first got my N2, I took it all apart, I mean down to the bare frame- mostly to document the structure and teach myself how to help support all of you fellow owners, along with improvements and changes. I added Astrosyn rubber dampeners between the motor and the mounting flanges. This too gives me a tiny bit of flex to help in case of alignment issues. It also makes the printer that "extra" bit of already near silent.
See my Album here of my super earlybird N2.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/90025904@ ... 877858905/
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24877857805_fd3e9c51e6_o.jpg

Jetguy
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Re: Y axis coupler - catastrophic failure

Postby Jetguy » Fri Jan 13, 2017 6:18 pm

What I mean to say, I considered putting those exact couplers I linked earlier in with red inserts, but took the "let's see what happens stock" as my intent was to see if we had failures. Honestly,while every once in a blue moon somebody gets a failure, it's mostly right after they first get the printer, after shipping i think the bumping around is the cause of the misalignment, the user doesn't take a brand new machine apart and sure enough, a few days to a week or two in, they report a failure. Most folks only have it happen once, and like I said, I see a pattern of just shipped printer, first time user, 50/50 chance the motor got bumped and bam, the coupler doesn't last long.

caxton3d
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Re: Y axis coupler - catastrophic failure

Postby caxton3d » Fri Jan 13, 2017 6:23 pm

Jetguy,

From your experience does the top deck just lift off after removing the visible screws? With the top deck removed it will be far easier to check on the alignment of the motor.
Pattern making for the restoration of vintage Dennis Fire Engines

Jetguy
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Re: Y axis coupler - catastrophic failure

Postby Jetguy » Fri Jan 13, 2017 7:25 pm

Yes, the visible screws are all that attaches it, however, the cables that go through the top are all zip tied. I cannot lie, it's a challenge. I took all the clear sides panels off, all the screws, and then started carefully cutting the zip ties holding all the wires.I would photo document everything.
Just fair warning, this is crossing that line where it goes from anyone can do it, to probably nobody should do it.

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RLH_3D
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Re: Y axis coupler - catastrophic failure

Postby RLH_3D » Sat Nov 18, 2017 4:43 pm

Raise3D CouplerFail.jpg


I am posting an occurrence of the failure which also happens to be a very similar Y axis coupler failure experienced by caxton3d.
I have had my printer for just under a year however I really haven't printed that much, probably only has 48 hours total run time :oops:
Anyway just today I decided to print something which failed shorty after the bed was layed down, I could occasionally hear a strange ticking noise when the Y axis would engage so I began to investigate and while manually moving the Y axis I felt something odd with the movement and took a closer look to find the above, I then simply did a google search on coupler failure and found this post.

Looks to me like my motor is defiantly not aligned to the shaft. I believe I will submit a ticket to the support team to get a replacement but was wondering if caxton3d had gotten the upgraded coupler that Jetguy had posted earlier.

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Y axis coupler - catastrophic failure

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:30 pm

We are so sorry about the problem you meet. For the previous 48-hour printing, does it show any abnormal on your model, such as wobbles, shiftings which may due to the misalignment of the coupler?
Shoot us a ticket, we will help check your problem and share warranty parts and instruction with you there.

Jetguy
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Re: Y axis coupler - catastrophic failure

Postby Jetguy » Sun Nov 19, 2017 3:00 pm

The "upgraded coupler" does not directly fit the printer without modification.
41DyGV9MPjL.jpg


The reason is, the outer diameter of this style of coupler is much larger than the stock "spiral" type. In order to fit this coupler, it required me to use a Dremel rotary abrasive tool to grind a groove for the locking setscrew of the larger jaw style coupler to fit. Due to the location and tight quarters of trying to apply this mod, I had to remove the entire top of the printer. I also had to grind and file slight clearance for the X axis motor at the back of the printer when I added the Astrosyn NEMA 17 damper between the motor and the mount. This moves the motor back and without some minor clearance on the inside, could rub and vibrate against the top plastic cover making noise and maybe even misalign the motor.

Point being, I know this mod works because I've done it now to both my original Kickstarter N2 and my more recent (bought earlier this year) N2 Plus. I fully understand why this is not more popular of a mod as it required grinding and filing to fit.

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RLH_3D
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Re: Y axis coupler - catastrophic failure

Postby RLH_3D » Tue Nov 21, 2017 12:53 am

Vicky@Raise3D wrote:We are so sorry about the problem you meet. For the previous 48-hour printing, does it show any abnormal on your model, such as wobbles, shiftings which may due to the misalignment of the coupler?
Shoot us a ticket, we will help check your problem and share warranty parts and instruction with you there.



Thank you for the quick response Vicky!
I didn't notice anything prior to the failure. My first impression when looking at the coupler (without taking anything apart) looked to me (as seen in my photo) like the motor and shaft are misaligned by several millimeters as can be seen by the separation (top vs bottom) of the coupler where it failed. This seems like perhaps something shifted down perhaps the motor due to it's weight during shipping (I would guess)

I did contact Matterhakers (where I originally purchased the Printer) and got a quick response to my email, they said they would contact you (Rais3d) to see how you would like to proceed. I'll go ahead and send you a private message (if I can) with the contact info they provided so that you'll know who is on the case. :-) I believe I can replace the part myself, however I will leave it up to you to decide the best way to proceed.

Thank you again.

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RLH_3D
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Re: Y axis coupler - catastrophic failure

Postby RLH_3D » Tue Nov 21, 2017 12:57 am

Ok good to know :-) I think I would prefer not going to that trouble at this point, especially if once we get a good look with the top off and determine if it is actually misaligned to the degree it look like in my photo (at the failure to to bottom alignment).
Thanks Jetguy! I'll let you know what I find.


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