Filament diameter causing extruder slipping?

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jerteach
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Filament diameter causing extruder slipping?

Postby jerteach » Sat Apr 15, 2017 5:08 pm

I just did a study on friction like forces from the stock Raise3D spool holder http://forum.raise3d.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1053&p=13939#p13939 , but none of this would have happened if my Stock filament was between 1.72 mm - 1.78 mm. (1.75 +- 0.03mm) I think my filament was fine for my first week of printing (I wish I had measured it), but when working on my second spool I started getting extruder slipping on the top layer of the raft. See image below:

raft-slip.jpg


If your raft looks like that, please measure your filament, and report it here. Remember to rotate the filament as it is not always perfectly round and take an average of three readings. Both of my spools have filament diameters between 1.55 mm - 1.65 mm at lots of spots along the filament. I am almost never getting a reading of 1.70 mm. I thought my $15 hardware store micrometer was off but it is perfect when measuring a feeler guage.

I have read lots of posts about MODS to the Raise3D extruder, I am just wondering if the extruder is fine and the reason people are using MODS is that the PLA filament diameter has too much variability. When my prints were good the N2 was by far the best 3D Printer I have ever used!

Anyone else with raft issues like the image above care to measure their Raise3D filament and post it here.
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lami3d
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Re: Filament diameter causing extruder slipping?

Postby lami3d » Sat Apr 15, 2017 5:31 pm

I don't think the only filament diameter variation could explain this... it's like it stopped to extrude...
friction, motor, temperature and filament quality (i never see too much variation as you said) and is your filament old ? did it pops when it extrudes (= humidity) ?

the bondtech, for example, has a spring that ensure a constant torque on the filament, that helps also...

lami3d
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Re: Filament diameter causing extruder slipping?

Postby lami3d » Sat Apr 15, 2017 5:41 pm

Or yes if as you said it's so small at certain point of the filament that the gear doesn't press the filament enough...
there are mods to add a spring to the original conf or you have to losse the screws that hold the motor to move the gear a little bit closer...
but it's not a solution...
or change your filament supplier to find a more regulate one and more closer to 1.75mm

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jerteach
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Re: Filament diameter causing extruder slipping?

Postby jerteach » Sun Apr 16, 2017 4:01 pm

My filament and Printer are brand new, I just opened the Stock Raise3D problem filament pouch last week. No humidity popping or brittleness at all.


lami3d wrote:Or yes if as you said it's so small at certain point of the filament that the gear doesn't press the filament enough...
there are mods to add a spring to the original conf or you have to losse the screws that hold the motor to move the gear a little bit closer...
but it's not a solution...
or change your filament supplier to find a more regulate one and more closer to 1.75mm



Thanks lami3d, I did not know you could adjust the filament gear tension on the N2. (Any links on how to do it?) I agree that it is not really a solution because then you may have jamming issues if the filament diameter goes above 1.80 mm. A tension device is the solution but I can't pay for a MOD at this time.

I have been teaching 3D Printing for two years with a Tinkerine 3D Printer and it comes with a tensioned extruder so I never ran into any filament diameter issues before. The N2 is a MUCH better printer but in my opinion the stock N2 is sensitive to filament diameter.


I found this site which claims 0.03 mm filament tolerances. Has anyone used rigid.ink filaments https://rigid.ink/collections/pla-filaments

Looks like it can be purchased for ~$44.00 USD from Amazon which seems a bit steep but I would pay the price to not worry during a 24 hour print https://www.amazon.com/rigid-ink-2-2lbs-2-85mm-Filament-Printers/dp/B019A3V858/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1492356783&sr=8-3&keywords=rigid.ink
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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Filament diameter causing extruder slipping?

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Mon Apr 17, 2017 7:56 am

Maybe this does help: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=493&p=7654&hilit=move+gear#p7654

Can you please share your measuring result and the sticker on your filament spool onto our ticket system?

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jerteach
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Re: Filament diameter causing extruder slipping?

Postby jerteach » Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:55 pm

Vicky@Raise3D wrote: Can you please share your measuring result and the sticker on your filament spool onto our ticket system?


Sure thing Vicky, I will do that when I get back to school. Here is a quote from the Raise3D store https://www.raise3d.com/collections/filaments/products/raise3d-pla-1-75-mm-1kg

Specification

Diameter: 1.75mm +/- 0.05mm (+/- 0.02mm typical)



Any chance with your Bosses permission you could go around the factory with a micrometer and get some real measurements of your premium PLA and posts it here. Take about 5 measurements per roll at several spots along the filament. Can even be done without taking the filament out of the machine. (Not sure if it can be done while the machine is running). Forums love real data :D

If all your measurements are between 1.70mm - 1.80 mm then I have a weird roll of PLA!

However if you have average measurements (or even a few spools) with filament measurements between 1.55 mm - 1.70 mm then you have a filament quality control problem that is making your Rasie3D Extruder look bad!


;) P.S. Your Boss will tell you. "No need to post those measurements, we do extensive filament testing and all our filaments are consistently within the mentioned specifications." ;)
B.Sc (Chemistry), B.Ed (High School) Diploma Counselling
40 years coding. Teach: Robotics, Coding, Animation and 3D Printing. I research Music Notation
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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Filament diameter causing extruder slipping?

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:49 am

Just took 4 spools from our factory to measure by random, yellow, red, black and white, each color one spool. Each spool 4-5 points.
Sorry we only have caliper on hand.

Here are the results:
Yellow: 1.76 1.79 1.78 1.75 1.76
Red: 1.78 1.76 1.74 1.76 1.78
Black: 1.76 1.75 1.74 1.78 1.75
White: 1.80 1.75 1.72 1.74 1.78
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jerteach
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Re: Filament diameter causing extruder slipping?

Postby jerteach » Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:48 pm

Thank you so much Vicky for showing the data and images. I really appreciate it. Looks like my rolls of Premium PLA are not the normal.

Is there any point for me to place a support ticket? I don't really need replacement rolls as I am getting quality prints, it is only the higher speed raft that shows any issues and my latest changes have improved the raft printing.


On the left before changing spool holder and removing feeder tube. On the right printing with 1.60 mm filament, still has minor issues but much better.

raqft before after spool holder tube.jpg



I have a print on at the moment with the red filament, but I will show it later.

Showing my 1.60 mm yellow filament

yellow filament.jpg



Just checking the micrometer, A 0.559 feeler gauge to check the micrometer.
feelerguage.jpg
B.Sc (Chemistry), B.Ed (High School) Diploma Counselling
40 years coding. Teach: Robotics, Coding, Animation and 3D Printing. I research Music Notation
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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Filament diameter causing extruder slipping?

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:27 am

Thanks for your pictures.
Can you also share onto here: help.raise3d.com/support/home?
It will have an engineer help follow your case there.

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jerteach
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Re: Filament diameter causing extruder slipping?

Postby jerteach » Wed Apr 19, 2017 5:29 pm

Vicky@Raise3D wrote:Thanks for your pictures.
Can you also share onto here: help.raise3d.com/support/home?
It will have an engineer help follow your case there.




I sent a support ticket to the Engineers. I assume the Printer Serial Number is the first bar code number below the Power and Voltage statements.
B.Sc (Chemistry), B.Ed (High School) Diploma Counselling
40 years coding. Teach: Robotics, Coding, Animation and 3D Printing. I research Music Notation
Train: Rugby Players and Recurrent Neural Networks
Twitter: @rocksetta https://twitter.com/rocksetta

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Filament diameter causing extruder slipping?

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:26 am

Yes, numbers below left longer bar code.


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