Extrusion width in ideaMaker

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ABH
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Extrusion width in ideaMaker

Postby ABH » Sat Nov 05, 2016 11:37 am

Lately I have been printing some fixtures for accurate positioning of sensors etc. and have enjoyed the great precision of my Raise3D printer.
I needed to print thin walls of different widths that need full strength, but here I have faced some limitations of ideaMaker.
In Simplify3D you can set the extrusion width, whereas ideaMaker seems to use a fixed extrusion width of 0.4 mm (=nozzle diameter).
Depending on the extrusion width you can adjust the mechanical design for optimal printing of the thin walls. This is what I have been doing, and obviously this is easier, when you have some control of the extrusion width, like in Simplify3D.
So, my first proposal is to have adjustable extrusion width in ideaMaker, like in Simplify3D. Extrusion width control in Simplify3D works fine with my Raise3D printer.

Next, let's print a thin wall of 1 mm width:
Regardless of number of "Shells", then there will only be printed a single shell (perimeter). There's then a void of 0.2 mm between the perimeters.
If you set "Solid Fill Pattern Type" to "Lines", then thin walls will be filled 100% in the top and bottom layers.
However, middle layers will only be filled if infill percentage is set to 100% (even 99% won't do), otherwise there's a void between the perimeters.
It doesn't help to set "Infill Overlap" to a high percentage.
The line ideaMaker uses for the fill in top and bottom layers actually seems to be of variable extrusion width, down to very thin. So ideaMaker does a great job in top and bottom layers.
My problem is, that I want to use less than 100% infill in the main part of the body, but I also want to have solid 1 mm thin walls.
So, my second proposal is to have an option for "Solid fill of thin walls" in ideaMaker. This should enable solid thin walls in all layers, independent of the set infill percentage.

rbosworth
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Re: Extrusion width in ideaMaker

Postby rbosworth » Sun Nov 06, 2016 10:56 pm

I believe your first point can already be done in Ideamaker. Go to Printer->Printer Settings... then set Nozzle Diameter change to what's desired. Downside is that it's the same for both nozzles on dual extruder. Not sure about the second point.

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walshlg
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Re: Extrusion width in ideaMaker

Postby walshlg » Mon Nov 07, 2016 2:10 pm

Point #2 is well taken -> I often make wall thickness an integer multiple of extrusion diameters (nozzle size) but even then it doesn't always make truly solid walls. moving faster while extruding at a constant speed makes thinner extrusions. I'd love to see a slice optimize thin walls.

ABH
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Re: Extrusion width in ideaMaker

Postby ABH » Tue Nov 08, 2016 12:00 pm

@rbosworth, I think you are right that it's equivalent to adjusting the nozzle diameter, it's just not very logical that you have to alter printer settings.

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jmp
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Re: Extrusion width in ideaMaker

Postby jmp » Wed Nov 09, 2016 12:18 am

rbosworth wrote:I believe your first point can already be done in Ideamaker. Go to Printer->Printer Settings... then set Nozzle Diameter change to what's desired. Downside is that it's the same for both nozzles on dual extruder. Not sure about the second point.

So are you saying that if you want to change the extrusion width to change the nozzle size in Ideamaker? I don't think that is going to work.
RL Name: Jason Preuss Thingiverse: JMP Youtube:http://youtube.com/c/patterntoprint Website: http://www.patterntoprint.com

ABH
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Re: Extrusion width in ideaMaker

Postby ABH » Wed Nov 09, 2016 7:57 am

Yes, that must be true.
If the printer has the std. 0.4 mm nozzle and you cheat the SW to believe that there's a 0.5 mm nozzle, then it will force the same volume of plastic through the 0.4 mm nozzle as if there would have been a 0.5 mm nozzle. The SW will also use a trace spacing of 0.5 mm.
I still think it would by good to have an extrusion width setting in ideaMaker in the template definitions.

pit516
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Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2016 12:29 pm

Re: Extrusion width in ideaMaker

Postby pit516 » Fri Nov 25, 2016 12:33 pm

why ideamaker didnt have an extrusion width setting??
all other Slicer have this setting !!!

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Extrusion width in ideaMaker

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Sat Nov 26, 2016 7:22 am

In ideaMaker, editing the nozzle diameter to be 0.38 will change both extrusion amount and extrusion width to be 0.38 when slicing.

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walshlg
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Re: Extrusion width in ideaMaker

Postby walshlg » Thu Dec 01, 2016 5:04 pm

What we are after is a way to calculate/ adjust extrusion speed and/ or print speed to make/ designate how thick the extruded line may be and then use that capability within the slicer calculations to make solid walls.

For example for a given feed rate, E, and layer height, doubling the print speed will make an extrusion line that is about 1/2 as wide as at single speed (as close as the assumption that the extruded bead is a rectangle in cross section). Similarly, keeping print spreed constant but cutting E by 50% also makes the extruded bead roughly half as wide.

jmel
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Re: Extrusion width in ideaMaker

Postby jmel » Tue Jun 05, 2018 5:55 pm

bump - I've been using ideakmaker for a few months, and have seen people mention that using a thicker extrusion width strengthens the model, and speeds up print time (less shells).

This is really needed (extrusion width in percentage or mm).

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Extrusion width in ideaMaker

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:49 am

jmel wrote:bump - I've been using ideakmaker for a few months, and have seen people mention that using a thicker extrusion width strengthens the model, and speeds up print time (less shells).

This is really needed (extrusion width in percentage or mm).


viewtopic.php?f=6&t=906&p=32239#p32239

MDVolle
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Re: Extrusion width in ideaMaker

Postby MDVolle » Fri Jun 08, 2018 1:27 am

As Vicky has sent a link for - the extrusion width is a setting - independent of the nozzle diameter in the printer settings

How do the two settings differ or relate to each other?

I was guessing that the value for extrusion width in the slicing profile took precedence (as you can set the two extruders independently) and the value in the printer setup became a check that there is some reasonable correlation between the sliced file and the machine set-up?

I have also been taking a look at the actual diameter of the opening in some of my nozzles under a tool maker's microscope and found I had some odd nozzles - some mis-labeled nozzles and some with nicks or dents - it was very informative and I tossed a few so they wouldn't come back to haunt me with unexpected results and settings.

Some of the under/over diameter nozzles work fine with the correct actual value entered into the extrusion width in the profile.

jmel
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Re: Extrusion width in ideaMaker

Postby jmel » Sat Jun 16, 2018 3:49 am

Vicky@Raise3D wrote:
jmel wrote:bump - I've been using ideakmaker for a few months, and have seen people mention that using a thicker extrusion width strengthens the model, and speeds up print time (less shells).

This is really needed (extrusion width in percentage or mm).


viewtopic.php?f=6&t=906&p=32239#p32239


Thanks Vicky, but I'm still not clear on the correlation between the setting you displayed and the printer nozzle setting... as MDVolle said.

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Extrusion width in ideaMaker

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:01 am

Actually when carry out slicing, the value used to calculate is only the extrusion width under Advanced settings. As due to different filament, different nozzle types, the width of the real lines extruded from nozzle tip may not be exactly the same as the physical nozzle size.
The nozzle size in Printer Settings normally we recommend to set it the same as the physical nozzle size. When ideaMaker finds that the offset between the values you set for extrusion width and nozzle size is too large, a warning message will jump out to inform that you may forget to update one of the values due to wrong settings or nozzle replacing to be different size.


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