maintain temperatures after stopping a print

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obfuscated
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maintain temperatures after stopping a print

Postby obfuscated » Mon Oct 17, 2016 6:40 pm

I did a search for this topic but didn't see anything related so here goes.

It would be nice if there was a delay before the printer stopped heating the bed and hotends after stopping a print. I will often need to restart a print to make a minor adjustment either to the z stop or to the gcode and having to the punch in the current values again to the touchscreen is becoming tedious.

On my other printer there is a setting to delay how long it waits before cooling down.

Can we add this or am I missing a setting?

Charles
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Re: maintain temperatures after stopping a print

Postby Charles » Mon Oct 17, 2016 9:37 pm

Can you just modify the ending G-code to remove the code that turns off the bed?

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Re: maintain temperatures after stopping a print

Postby obfuscated » Mon Oct 17, 2016 10:56 pm

Charles wrote:Can you just modify the ending G-code to remove the code that turns off the bed?


ah.. that hadn't occurred to me.. yes I can try that.. although is that code being run if the print is stopped or paused?

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Re: maintain temperatures after stopping a print

Postby Charles » Tue Oct 18, 2016 3:01 pm

I think you would change the Gcode in the "end Gcode" tab of advanced settings. But if you remove the code to turn off the extruder and bed (removing M104 S0 and M140 S0), you MUST remember to turn it off manually. I don't think you can set a timer using this method.

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Re: maintain temperatures after stopping a print

Postby Michael » Tue Oct 18, 2016 5:29 pm

Or you can put a Gcode pause (M2000) right at the end... so it waits for you.

Just be aware you might also want to park the nozzle somewhere away from the print, before that pause.
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Re: maintain temperatures after stopping a print

Postby obfuscated » Wed Oct 19, 2016 6:42 pm

Charles wrote:I think you would change the Gcode in the "end Gcode" tab of advanced settings. But if you remove the code to turn off the extruder and bed (removing M104 S0 and M140 S0), you MUST remember to turn it off manually. I don't think you can set a timer using this method.


Yeah I was also wondering if the printer has a timeout where it would cooldown if was not actively printing for a set amount of time

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Re: maintain temperatures after stopping a print

Postby Jetguy » Thu Oct 20, 2016 12:43 am


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Re: maintain temperatures after stopping a print

Postby obfuscated » Sun Jan 01, 2017 4:18 pm

Charles wrote:I think you would change the Gcode in the "end Gcode" tab of advanced settings. But if you remove the code to turn off the extruder and bed (removing M104 S0 and M140 S0), you MUST remember to turn it off manually. I don't think you can set a timer using this method.


This doesn't appear to work.. I tried removing these codes and also replacing them with codes that set a temp in either case the temperature drops when the printer is finished or stopped.

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Re: maintain temperatures after stopping a print

Postby obfuscated » Sun Jan 01, 2017 4:20 pm



What am I looking for in this?

I guess I was expecting there to be a printer setting to maintain temp for a set amount of time like the Makerbot.

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Re: maintain temperatures after stopping a print

Postby Jetguy » Wed Jan 04, 2017 3:39 am

What am I looking for in this?

Well, given the firmware has a timeout coded into it and no eeprom so it's not a setting you can adjust without flashing new firmware- it may be outside outside of some folks comfort zones and skill sets. I pointed you at the source code where you can determine if you can follow those instructions and modify custom firmware.

"printer setting to maintain temp for a set amount of time like the Makerbot."
Even a MakerNot has a timeout. https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic ... JHrnvY9LHA

Direct quote from Dan Newman:
I want to send a heads up to everyone running Sailfish. Please note that
when you pause a print using the "generic" Pause, the heaters are only
turned off if you have "Heat during pause" disabled (set to OFF). This
is a firmware setting which you can control through the LCD display.
Thing-o-Matic and Cupcake owners can also set it via RepG. The default
value for this firmware setting is ON (enabled). Next time you are
using your bot, check the setting and consider which way you want it set.

Leaving your bot paused but with the heaters on for extended periods of time
is not safe: the extruder can only dissipate the heat passively in that case
and damage to the bot may result. No reports of anything worse than that,
but you don't want to be the first to find out that it can be.

The next release of Sailfish will have the default be OFF. We will also
investigate turning the heaters off after 10 - 15 minutes of being paused.

Finally, note that the bots have options to be paused with the heaters off
("Cold Pause"). So, when pausing your bot and leaving it unattended, you
should use that pause choice. It turns all the heaters off, the LEDs off,
the PLA cooling fan off, and disables the extruder stepper motor. That
last act can result in a small gap at the start of the print as the filament
may back out a tiny amount. But it ensures that the stepper motor doesn't
get hot enough to warp extruder parts (e.g., extruder mods). Since the
extruder heater is off in this setting, the heatsink cooling fan eventually
turns off as well -- once the extruder temp drops below 50C.

Dan


That timeout not only applies to pause but any period of inactivity. Say you preheat before a print, it can timeout. If you set it to maintain at the end of a print, it times out.
In fact, this documentation says that default end gcode will turn off heaters http://www.sailfishfirmware.com/v75-v45.html
Heaters now automatically turned off at the end of a print: For all bots, at the end of a print with a "M73 P100" command, all heaters will be turned off. Subsequent commands can re-enable heaters and as such, custom end gcode files should avoid setting non-zero temperatures after that command. Moreover, end gcode files should continue to explicitly turn heaters off and not rely upon this special behavior of the "M73 P100" command.


All I'm trying to point out is you said
I guess I was expecting there to be a printer setting to maintain temp for a set amount of time like the Makerbot.

There are a lot of conflicts with that answer even in a Makerbot- let alone a Raise 3D. Neither one easily is just some GUI setting that will override timeouts and other built in safety.

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Re: maintain temperatures after stopping a print

Postby Jetguy » Wed Jan 04, 2017 4:27 am

In fact, there is a lot going on to be honest here.
The current official compiled hex files are based on an earlier firmware and have a known stepper timeout that can affect a pause.
What I'm saying is, I pointed you at official source code, but that code and exact settings may not be what you are running right now at this exact moment in time. Official firmware hex is 1.1.1 https://www.raise3d.com/pages/download

Then we get back to a recent thread where folks who compiled the firmware from the latest source ran into this issue with files while printing viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1214

So again, 1.1.1 official has a timeout for the steppers, i thought it had one for heaters but cannot verify at the moment.
Source code is 1.1.6 but there are reports of some issues. Again, unsure of the timeouts (most settings are in Configuration.h and Configuration_adv.h, but there might be other parts of the code and interactions.

As always, Ideamaker has the start and end gcode sections which are editable, but as a system firmware can and does interact and so it's a lot to keep track of. Also, we do not have open code to know what the gcode streaming and front panel LCD code is doing either. You have no less than 3 sets of code affecting operation (Slicer, Front panel, and motion controller firmware).
You kind of opened Pandora's box with your question.

But truth be told, that's not that different than a Makerbot with X3G.
You have the slicer, the gcode to X3G conversion, and then the firmware there too. For example, GPX doing the X3G conversion has rules that can change functions you set in gcode you might have never known about.

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Re: maintain temperatures after stopping a print

Postby obfuscated » Wed Jan 04, 2017 9:11 pm

Jetguy wrote:In fact, there is a lot going on to be honest here.


I'm sure there is I was just hoping somebody (anybody from raise3d) would know off the top of their heads without digging through the code. It just seems like you would obviously want the heat to stay up for a short time by default or at least a control panel option to set it?

Jetguy wrote:As always, Ideamaker has the start and end gcode sections which are editable


Like I said I have tried editing the end gcode and it seems to ignore the changes I make and shuts off the heat no matter what.

Jetguy wrote:You kind of opened Pandora's box with your question.


If that what it takes so that I don't constantly have to punch in the temp and then wait for it to heat back up while I trying to get a print started then so be it? I mean no matter how fast I do it by the time I enter the those temps it's cooled off enough it takes an almost unbearable amount of time to get back up to temp.

Thanks for looking into!

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Re: maintain temperatures after stopping a print

Postby Jetguy » Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:43 am

I don't constantly have to punch in the temp and then wait for it to heat back up while I trying to get a print started


I really don't get your workflow, that makes little sense. I don't ever feel like I have to constantly punch in the temp trying to get a print started and I own both and N1 and N2, and then built my own experimental N2++++++.

#1 the heating command waits for it to hit target before the print begins. Preheat or not, the printer is fully automated.
#2 how long are we talking here waiting? Are you "that impatient"or is there a problem with your printer?

Honestly, this is either an expectations issue, an improper usage scenario, or your PID or heater hardware is not quite right- and had you ran the heater decoupled firmware- it would be screaming at you if that was the case (exactly why i implemented it in the first place to catch bad systems).

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Re: maintain temperatures after stopping a print

Postby obfuscated » Thu Jan 05, 2017 2:25 am

Jetguy wrote:
I don't constantly have to punch in the temp and then wait for it to heat back up while I trying to get a print started


I really don't get your workflow, that makes little sense. I don't ever feel like I have to constantly punch in the temp trying to get a print started and I own both and N1 and N2, and then built my own experimental N2++++++.

#1 the heating command waits for it to hit target before the print begins. Preheat or not, the printer is fully automated.
#2 how long are we talking here waiting? Are you "that impatient"or is there a problem with your printer?

Honestly, this is either an expectations issue, an improper usage scenario, or your PID or heater hardware is not quite right- and had you ran the heater decoupled firmware- it would be screaming at you if that was the case (exactly why i implemented it in the first place to catch bad systems).


To be clear I'm not putting the temps in there for the preheat.. you are correct when you say it is automated.. when I start the print .. it heats up to the correct temps before it starts.

However when I start a print I usually watch the first layer to make it's adhering correctly and that I have set the z stop correctly. Sometimes I have to restart it a couple of times to get it just right which means I'm hitting stop on the print, then needing to punch the temps back in manually so it doesn't cool off, making a small adjustment to the zstop and then restarting the print. Making the adjustment to the zstop takes moments but it takes alot longer for the temp to get back up to target.

I don't think it's an unreasonable expectation for the printer to wait a minute or two when I hit stop before it stops heating... that's all I'm asking for.

This is stock printer.. I have not made any changes to it.

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Re: maintain temperatures after stopping a print

Postby Jetguy » Thu Jan 05, 2017 4:17 am

This is an unreasonable and unsafe expectation.
I don't think it's an unreasonable expectation for the printer to wait a minute or two when I hit stop before it stops heating.


Any CNC machine, if you stop or cancel a job, it should shut down for safety so yes, not even a UI setting should leave the heaters on.
That's a safety issue. You are commanding a stop because something went wrong. The machine doesn't know why you stopped, only you basically commanded a full stop.

Then we get into why are you needing to cancel and make adjustments. That sounds like you may have not added a spring or other method to stabilize the adjustment screw.

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Re: maintain temperatures after stopping a print

Postby Jetguy » Thu Jan 05, 2017 4:20 am

Again, not even a Makerbot would do this since you earlier used that as a comparison or example. If you cancel a print, every printer I've ever touched (and note, I own over 40 printers) shuts down EVERYTHING including heaters if you command a stop or cancel mid print.

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Re: maintain temperatures after stopping a print

Postby Jetguy » Thu Jan 05, 2017 4:30 am

Z adjuster spring thread from early forum
https://www.raise3d.com/pages/community ... top-spring

Or the N2 and N2+ modification to change the entire bed mounting and adjustement
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1003&p=9337&hilit=spring#p9337

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Re: maintain temperatures after stopping a print

Postby obfuscated » Thu Jan 05, 2017 4:38 am

Jetguy wrote:Any CNC machine, if you stop or cancel a job, it should shut down for safety so yes, not even a UI setting should leave the heaters on.


But that is not exactly what the Raise3d does when hit pause or stop. If you want a fullstop you have to pull the power.

At any rate this is the Makerbot UI feature I was referring to
heathold.jpg


You can tell the bot to keep the heaters on after cancelling a build. It
will then leave them on for up to … 30 minutes or whatever time you set.
The idea is that you cancelled the build because you need to tweak something --
either on the bot itself or regenerate the gcode. And you don't want to
wait 12 minutes +/- for a Rep 1 to come back to temp and instead would
it please just stay hot.

Dan

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic ... oKeA650XAg
Last edited by obfuscated on Thu Jan 05, 2017 4:46 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: maintain temperatures after stopping a print

Postby obfuscated » Thu Jan 05, 2017 4:43 am

Jetguy wrote:Z adjuster spring thread from early forum
https://www.raise3d.com/pages/community ... top-spring


I already did this.

The problem is that if I had to take the bed out to remove the print when I put it back in I can't expect the level to be exactly the same. I'm not convinced that the switch used for the zstop is the most accurate way to do this.. the screw even with the scpring is a bit wobbly... been wondering if the BLtouch or similar switch would be more accurate.

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Re: maintain temperatures after stopping a print

Postby Jetguy » Thu Jan 05, 2017 4:55 am

In this case, the front panel LCD GUI application running on the pcDuino is what you the user cancelled the active print job with.
That kind of acts like Octoprint with a GUI LCD screen and is streaming the gcode commands to the motion control board running Marlin firmware.
We have the source code for the Marlin but do not have the source code or much of any information on the GUI application running in the pcDuino. As such, that is what cancelled the job and is shutting off the heaters. The "right way" to implement this function needs to be in that pcDuino GUI code since that is what you the user see as the system control and status reporting. If you do this in Marlin firmware, you are basically making the motion controller "do it's own un-commanded function" by leaving the heaters on even after a commanded stop and I would consider that a dangerous and bad idea.

Just saying, now that you further described your request- no, gcode will not fix or change this, nor will changes in the Marlin firmware. In fact, trying to do it that way (in Marlin firmware) sounds bad because you are ignoring commands sent to cancel and shut off heaters.


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