Single extruder multiple color using the Mosaic Palette

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Jetguy
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Single extruder multiple color using the Mosaic Palette

Postby Jetguy » Thu Apr 21, 2016 7:13 pm

Here is a link to the flickr album and I'll post more discussion about the details later today https://www.flickr.com/photos/90025904@ ... 7337313316

Please note, this is actually bad guide tube placement and will cause breakage of the filament in my testing. Do not pass the encoder guide tube through the N1 holes. This will cause breakage of the splices. It's minor change that the encoder gets mounted using the supplied Velcro to the cable channel rail on the N1 and the guide tube becomes more vertical in nature preventing sharp bends.
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Last edited by Jetguy on Tue Apr 26, 2016 3:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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walshlg
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Re: Single extruder multiple color using the Mosaic Palette

Postby walshlg » Fri Apr 22, 2016 3:50 pm

glad its working!

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Derek@Raise3D
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Re: Single extruder multiple color using the Mosaic Palette

Postby Derek@Raise3D » Tue Apr 26, 2016 5:46 am

Mosaic Palette is working? Looks great?
I am interested that how could you edit the color mapping.
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I'm a lazy engineer. So I want everything automated.
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Jetguy
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Re: Single extruder multiple color using the Mosaic Palette

Postby Jetguy » Tue Apr 26, 2016 3:43 pm

The Mosaic Palette is working great and getting better and better every day I use it. I'm right in the middle of trying to finalize some implementation information (how to connect it, where the scroll wheel works best, calibration tests and tips, extruder feed guide tube attachment, and other aspects of usage).
Sorry for lack of posts, I just want to make sure I get the information right the first time before posting the guides.

Also working with the Mosaic team on some minor firmware improvements and feature additions to make it easier to use. That in turn may translate in the requirements such as the guide tube being firmly locked at the extruder to ensure filament distance (both positive feed and retraction) is observed by the scroll wheel for active in print calibration routines (called a ping in the current version).
Again, this is a whole new era of 3D printing on the bleeding edge.

Jetguy
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Re: Single extruder multiple color using the Mosaic Palette

Postby Jetguy » Mon May 09, 2016 9:26 pm

Finally, after some new info on tuning, I'm cranking out 4 color prints from a single nozzle on the N1. More insanely cool stuff to follow.

I know, you are thinking they keychain, that's it? Yes, starting small but it's all about calibration and tuning. The print quality is amazing with none of the smearing or cross contamination that second nozzle introduces. And while the purge towers seem huge in this pic, they stay the same on the larger object. Purge towers are 1 less than the number of colors used. So a 2 color print only uses a single purge tower.
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Julia Truchsess
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Re: Single extruder multiple color using the Mosaic Palette

Postby Julia Truchsess » Tue May 10, 2016 12:50 am

So cool, thanks for posting!

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Derek@Raise3D
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Re: Single extruder multiple color using the Mosaic Palette

Postby Derek@Raise3D » Tue May 10, 2016 1:41 am

Jetguy wrote:Finally, after some new info on tuning, I'm cranking out 4 color prints from a single nozzle on the N1. More insanely cool stuff to follow.

I know, you are thinking they keychain, that's it? Yes, starting small but it's all about calibration and tuning. The print quality is amazing with none of the smearing or cross contamination that second nozzle introduces. And while the purge towers seem huge in this pic, they stay the same on the larger object. Purge towers are 1 less than the number of colors used. So a 2 color print only uses a single purge tower.

Nice print! What's the usually length of the exchanging zone? I mean what's the length while color is mixed on the filament side. Currently is still based on multiple models. So when color changing at the same layer, it needs to generate one purge tower, 3 towers for 4 colors. To think deeper, if the at each level, not all the colors appeared, then current purge tower algorithm is not right?
:shock: hmmm.... Seems need to change the slicer structure to make it fully functional. Using it like dual extruder don't need to change current slicer.
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I'm a lazy engineer. So I want everything automated.
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Zettlinger
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Re: Single extruder multiple color using the Mosaic Palette

Postby Zettlinger » Tue May 10, 2016 1:50 am

Derek,

They use their own slicer if i understood correctly that outputs 2 files one for the printer and one for the palet

I do wonder how much filament is used in the towers though seems for a small print its a pretty big set of towers.
In a big print with loads of color changes it might run out of room on a tower ?

Still have so many questions but excited about the development of it

Jetguy
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Re: Single extruder multiple color using the Mosaic Palette

Postby Jetguy » Tue May 10, 2016 1:31 pm

Let me explain. They do not use their slicer. They can use any slicer that is capable of generating 4 toolhead gcode. They have guides for S3D and Cura at this point in time, but other slicers could/should work. That gcode is processed in the Mosaic application. This is not a full blown slicer. It parses the gcode file, determines the total length of filament between toolhead changes, removes the toolhead changes from a final gcode written just for the printer. It creates a custom file for the Palette that contains some settings info specific for that palette and printer.
One thing is added by the mosaic application and that is the purge/wipe towers.

Yes, the default size for the purge towers seems large, but this is to give you a buffer for incorrect setup and calibration. If your printer is not 100% dead on accurate on consuming filament as commanded (extruder skips steps, gear slippage, other minor differences) they make a huge difference when you start talking mm accuracy of a splice location after several meters have passed.
Basically, the better your tuning and calibration, the better and more accurate your extruder feeder is (think Bondtech upgrade) the smaller your safety zone in a purge tower can be.

Yes, the system has feedback and attempts corrections. But again, there are limits here. Filament is cut and spliced to commanded lengths per the gcode. When you printer makes one tiny difference in actual VS commanded, that cascades and shifts everything. If that shift is greater than the buffer of the purge tower= wrong color in wrong section of print.

Jetguy
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Re: Single extruder multiple color using the Mosaic Palette

Postby Jetguy » Tue May 10, 2016 1:46 pm

Think of this as the ultimate printer test. They have gone to extreme standards to ensure the Palette produces exactly the commanded cut and splice lengths. Each one is hand calibrated and tested at the factory. In fact, all filament passing through the Palette goes through both the input feeder drives and the output feeder drive (the only way moving and splicing filaments together can happen). If those drives were off even by a fraction of a mm, then splicing fails or the input VS output would fight each other and jam or stretch splices. On top if that is a high precision encoder wheel watching all filament produced. There is also a known length of guide tubes and there is a magnet and homing system that periodically lets your printer consume filament until the buffer zone collapses and homes that known distance. It's several layers of calibration and correction all happening to cross check.

So again, this is a precision splicer. It's up to your printer to accurately follow the gcode verbatim and extrude the commanded lengths. Any failure of your printer is painfully obvious and is seen as the transition is offset from the diagonal center of the purge tower. And, if you time lapse a print job, you can see the Palette attempt to correct splices, but there are several already cut and made splices between the palette and your printer that cannot be changed after the fact. If you stay on track, then you can attempt smaller and smaller purge towers. If you have a hotend that doesn't bleed for long periods of time between color changes, you can further shorten the purge towers.

By all means, download the application and watch the videos.
http://www.mosaicmanufacturing.com/pages/resources

Jetguy
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Re: Single extruder multiple color using the Mosaic Palette

Postby Jetguy » Tue May 10, 2016 2:00 pm

And yes, in an ideal world, you could take this to extremes. For example, if the slicer was aware, instead of external towers, purge zone blocks would simply be incorporated into infill zones hidden inside the print. That suddenly gets very complicated though. It won't work for anything but huge objects and simple shapes.

Right now. you have to think of this as them trying to bring it to the masses. They developed it as an external universal external device to add to most printers. As such, limitations, and functions are going to be less than ideal if you went to great lengths to embed this tech into a printer and a custom slicer to drive the printer. That's the tradeoff at this point.

Zettlinger
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Re: Single extruder multiple color using the Mosaic Palette

Postby Zettlinger » Tue May 10, 2016 4:18 pm

I was already interested when they launched their kickstarter and will def. be following it further :)

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walshlg
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Re: Single extruder multiple color using the Mosaic Palette

Postby walshlg » Tue May 10, 2016 4:27 pm

Why not use a color filament detector at the top of the extruder to, essentially, re-calibrate as you go so errors aren't propagated?

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Derek@Raise3D
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Re: Single extruder multiple color using the Mosaic Palette

Postby Derek@Raise3D » Thu May 12, 2016 12:52 am

Jetguy wrote:And yes, in an ideal world, you could take this to extremes. For example, if the slicer was aware, instead of external towers, purge zone blocks would simply be incorporated into infill zones hidden inside the print. That suddenly gets very complicated though. It won't work for anything but huge objects and simple shapes.

Right now. you have to think of this as them trying to bring it to the masses. They developed it as an external universal external device to add to most printers. As such, limitations, and functions are going to be less than ideal if you went to great lengths to embed this tech into a printer and a custom slicer to drive the printer. That's the tradeoff at this point.


I understand the working mechanism. A good re-calibration system is the key to this system. If slicer can operate each color segment separately, we can get much more accurate results. And I also consider using the Pallet as an nonstop filament station, trying to merge small roll of filaments into large spool. That would be more convenient and economic.
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Jetguy
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Re: Single extruder multiple color using the Mosaic Palette

Postby Jetguy » Sat Jul 30, 2016 12:48 am

Forget dual extrusion, here we go with 4 color using the Palette to the extreme. Here is a preview with the first 4 color layers.
Many folks print Benchy as a test, but few do it in 4 color. http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:763622
4 Color keychain is http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1440655
Attachments
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swampy
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Re: Single extruder multiple color using the Mosaic Palette

Postby swampy » Sat Jul 30, 2016 1:27 am

oh well then why forget dual exctrusion i say get 2 pallette and have 8 colours even better trying to figure out why my nozzle is blocked lol from crap filament that cost loads a money from holland yeah octofiber the best filament if you like a tangled 750kg roll not 1 mot 2 but 3 all petg ive got cheaper £11 rolls that are better rank over

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rlballard
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Re: Single extruder multiple color using the Mosaic Palette

Postby rlballard » Sat Jul 30, 2016 2:09 am

I have one on order and due mid-September, I'm pretty anxious....

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walshlg
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Re: Single extruder multiple color using the Mosaic Palette

Postby walshlg » Sat Jul 30, 2016 11:26 pm

Can't wait to hear about your experiences

Chrigi78
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Re: Single extruder multiple color using the Mosaic Palette

Postby Chrigi78 » Mon Aug 08, 2016 7:02 am

i think that is the Future from FDM Printing 1 Nozzel and 2-4 line change the Roll

intressting is have you test pla and water remove support ?

Jetguy
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Re: Single extruder multiple color using the Mosaic Palette

Postby Jetguy » Sat Sep 10, 2016 11:06 am

Currently, you cannot mix filament types because you must have a perfect welding of the 2 filaments and they both must be the same temperature characteristics. PVA and PLA are not directly compatible with each other in most cases of splicing. It might work later on experimentally, but it's too risky to say "it works" and then when you try it, it fails and breaks.

Latest results posted here https://www.flickr.com/photos/90025904@ ... 3537293506
They just sent me the new unit with the aluminum drives and the new software and firmware and this is the now final version that all Kickstarter backers are getting. Let me tell you, quite an impressive piece of hardware. Really consider it a huge value. We all were going to get acrylic laser cut drives and everyone got aluminum for free. https://www.mosaicmanufacturing.com/blo ... -evolution

Check out 4 color Benchy, took 15 hours to print 4 at a time. It's one thing to get a finely tuned benchy, it's a whole different world to get a 4 color finely tuned Benchy.

First picture is the in-progress print to show these were printed as one piece, not glued together or painted or any trickery. It's the real deal, adding 4 colors to a single nozzle. Printed on the Raise 3D N1 with single nozzle and the Bondtech extruder upgrade, V2 hotend with insulated heater block, and the V2H 0.4mm hard coated nozzle. Files were sliced with Simplify 3D.
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