Board Error 00 Extruder switched off. MAX...

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JohnSays
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Board Error 00 Extruder switched off. MAX...

Postby JohnSays » Thu May 17, 2018 1:22 am

I added two 1M ohm resistors to the back of the rev 7 motion controller board for thermal runaway protrection. Now if I just move the print head by hand or with the digital cursor buttons, I get the message: "Board Error: Error:00:Extruder switched off. MAX..." and it is suggested I restart.

What I have done to look for the cause of this error:

1) Ran a continuity test on the ribbon cable on pins TC 0 and TC 1. I made sure to flex the ribbon cable while doing this. Passed.
2) Checked for loose connections on the breakout board.
3) Removed the motion controller board to double check the insulation on the added resistors and to triple check for any crossover current leakage between the pins due to the soldering. Checked visually with strong magnifiers and with ohm meter.
4) Check resistance of 1M ohm resistors. They were both about 0.94 M ohms; which is within spec for 5% resistors.

Any ideas on what to check next? I'm not sure just how having the resistors in place changes things to check.

P1020383.jpg
- John
2 Raise3D N2 Duals, V2 nozzles, Bondtech BMGs, adjustable table, Panucatt SD2224 drivers, run-out sensor, thermal overload protection resistors on motion controller board, Firmware 1.1.8ABH - with Lin_Advance, Palette+

Jetguy
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Re: Board Error 00 Extruder switched off. MAX...

Postby Jetguy » Thu May 17, 2018 2:21 am

This is extremely simple.
Check 1 is power on with the ribbon cable disconnected. This must result in a MAXTEMP error.
Plug in the ribbon cable, if the printer boots and shows room temp with the ribbon cable plugged in, then everything is working.

If you passed check 1 and 2 and anytime after that, you get an error- it's literally telling you you have a ribbon cable intermittent fault and need to replace it.
The only way you will get a mintemp is when the machine is actually so cold it reads mintemp or if the thermocouple at the extruder breakout fails. Maxtemp errors tell you the ribbon cable has failed or is failing.

Jetguy
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Re: Board Error 00 Extruder switched off. MAX...

Postby Jetguy » Thu May 17, 2018 2:23 am

Again folks, this is the wakeup call of how many of you are printing with bad or failing ribbon cables and never knew it.

Those having screen crashes, prints failing several hours in, lockups? When you put in thermal protector, suddenly we can detect the root cause fault causing issues you didn't even know about.

Jetguy
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Re: Board Error 00 Extruder switched off. MAX...

Postby Jetguy » Thu May 17, 2018 2:27 am

Again, John, the fact it powers on means you properly installed the resistors, it's the same as the thermal protector.
"Now if I just move the print head by hand or with the digital cursor buttons, I get the message: "Board Error: Error:00:Extruder switched off. MAX..." and it is suggested I restart."
That is the expected fault if that ribbon cable connection fails for even a fraction of a second. The system REQUIRES that the thermocouple amps on the breakout are sending a valid less than 5V signal (10mV=1C so 5V =500C making 200c=2.0v). Again, what happens is, a flaky ribbon cable could pass the old test and hide the failure from you until the heater got way out of control. Now, you KNOW when there is a failure.

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JohnSays
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Re: Board Error 00 Extruder switched off. MAX...

Postby JohnSays » Thu May 17, 2018 2:06 pm

Very cool then. I guess that makes me the Poster Child for Why we all need to have this upgrade...

Btw, an interesting observation I just made is that I see the temperature on the left extruder spike instantly to over 200C in about 1/2 a second just as the error message displays.
Last edited by JohnSays on Thu May 17, 2018 2:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- John
2 Raise3D N2 Duals, V2 nozzles, Bondtech BMGs, adjustable table, Panucatt SD2224 drivers, run-out sensor, thermal overload protection resistors on motion controller board, Firmware 1.1.8ABH - with Lin_Advance, Palette+

Jetguy
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Re: Board Error 00 Extruder switched off. MAX...

Postby Jetguy » Thu May 17, 2018 2:10 pm

JohnSays wrote:Very cool then. I guess that makes me the Poster Child for Why we all need to have this upgrade...


Not just you, I'm convinced this at least plays a part in why this user is having issues. viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8190
It has all the symptoms:
I went down to my printer this morning and found the touch screen locked up and a large print half finished and unrecoverable. :(

I've had my printer going quite a bit this past month. I've had it do this to me about three times over the past month, so its not happening on every print.

This last print was started after the machine had been off for a day, so I had a freshly booted unit. No other visible symptoms.

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JohnSays
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Re: Board Error 00 Extruder switched off. MAX...

Postby JohnSays » Thu May 17, 2018 2:27 pm

Yeah, I get that. I was attempting to make a joke.

On a more practical side, I have never replaced the cable or moved it forward. Is there a description of the best way to go about this and what has to be done and what does not? Right now it looks like a pretty time intensive operation if all the sheathing needs to be replaced as it came from the factory.
- John
2 Raise3D N2 Duals, V2 nozzles, Bondtech BMGs, adjustable table, Panucatt SD2224 drivers, run-out sensor, thermal overload protection resistors on motion controller board, Firmware 1.1.8ABH - with Lin_Advance, Palette+

Jetguy
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Re: Board Error 00 Extruder switched off. MAX...

Postby Jetguy » Thu May 17, 2018 2:37 pm

If I was in your shoes (technically, I kind of am and should do this on my own machine), yes, not lying, due to routing, the number of zip ties, the cable path, it's a nightmare) I would lay the machine down on the side, so that the filament bay area and door was up. I would remove the rear panel of the printer, to gain maximum access to the cable bundle crossing from the vertical cable guide, across the rear lid hanging from zip ties, across to the entrance to the cable chain. That' just getting the access. The extra cable is also bundled in the base of the machine, along with the other cables. You also would want a new IDC (Insulation Displacement Connector) to crimp on to the extruder end of the cable (and more than one since they are fragile and without the proper tool, you can break easily trying to crimp with only pliers. It can be done with pliers, but is a skill and patience and control is required. I'm just saying, on one hand, all you need is a spare connector, maybe some zip ties for any you cut. So cost is low to do this. However, actual pain in the neck, chase this through the system, move the excess and unflexed cable into the cable chain section and cut off the old worn out section, now there in lies the challenge.

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JohnSays
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Re: Board Error 00 Extruder switched off. MAX...

Postby JohnSays » Thu May 17, 2018 5:07 pm

Yes, and that is exactly where I am at. Do you try to keep the existing ribbon slip covers in tact by removing or sliding them and then repositioning them?

Answered my own question: The cloth wrap holds the ends of the frayed braided shield in place. So, yes, unwrap the cloth, move the ribbon cable, rewrap the cloth wrap. I believe this tape is called "Wire Loom Harness Cloth." Available on Amazon.

Btw, I just posted about some ribbon cable that may last us at least 25 million flexes. JetGuy, have you got a line on this stuff or something like it? Seems a shame to go into this knowing that I will be doing it again in a few months or weeks.
- John
2 Raise3D N2 Duals, V2 nozzles, Bondtech BMGs, adjustable table, Panucatt SD2224 drivers, run-out sensor, thermal overload protection resistors on motion controller board, Firmware 1.1.8ABH - with Lin_Advance, Palette+

Stanislav
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Re: Board Error 00 Extruder switched off. MAX...

Postby Stanislav » Sat May 19, 2018 10:44 am

Today After installing the thermal protection during printing I get this error ( Board Error 00 Extruder switched off )
Honestly, I was surprised I did not expect a new 30-hour printer would have a cable problem
Stanislav

there is always a smarter man than you

pearson222
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Re: Board Error 00 Extruder switched off. MAX...

Postby pearson222 » Wed Aug 08, 2018 1:06 pm

Jetguy wrote:You also would want a new IDC (Insulation Displacement Connector) to crimp on to the extruder end of the cable (and more than one since they are fragile and without the proper tool, you can break easily trying to crimp with only pliers.


I am in the same position and need to do this for both of my machines. Do you have a PN# for the IDC that is needed. I know it is 14 pin and female but that is about it.

Jetguy
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Re: Board Error 00 Extruder switched off. MAX...

Postby Jetguy » Wed Aug 08, 2018 1:54 pm

https://www.amazon.com/uxcell-2-54mm-So ... B00977G510
Product Name : IDC Socket Connector;Type : FC-14P
Pin/Position Number : 14;Row Number : 2
Pitch : 2.54mm/0.1";Total Size : 22 x 16 x 7mm/0.9" x 0.6" x 0.3" (L*W*H)
Color : Gray;Material : Plastic, Metal
Alternate https://www.amazon.com/uxcell-FC-14P-2- ... B00X7794IM

pearson222
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Re: Board Error 00 Extruder switched off. MAX...

Postby pearson222 » Wed Aug 08, 2018 1:57 pm

Jetguy wrote:https://www.amazon.com/uxcell-2-54mm-Socket-Connector-Female/dp/B00977G510
Product Name : IDC Socket Connector;Type : FC-14P
Pin/Position Number : 14;Row Number : 2
Pitch : 2.54mm/0.1";Total Size : 22 x 16 x 7mm/0.9" x 0.6" x 0.3" (L*W*H)
Color : Gray;Material : Plastic, Metal
Alternate https://www.amazon.com/uxcell-FC-14P-2- ... B00X7794IM



Thank you Jetguy. Much appreciated!

Jetguy
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Re: Board Error 00 Extruder switched off. MAX...

Postby Jetguy » Wed Aug 08, 2018 2:06 pm


pearson222
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Re: Board Error 00 Extruder switched off. MAX...

Postby pearson222 » Fri Aug 10, 2018 3:36 pm

Just replaced my ribbon cable IDC by pulling 3-4" of slack through the loom from the bottom of the enclosure. I found the spot where the cable was pinched next to extruder board and trimmed past that point. Verified that the connector was crimped correctly and not crossing over to other pins and booted up... and same Error:00 extruders shut off: MAX...

Jetguy
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Re: Board Error 00 Extruder switched off. MAX...

Postby Jetguy » Fri Aug 10, 2018 3:54 pm

So, a maxtemp is created under a couple of conditions.
#1 the AD597 thermocouple amp checks to see the thermcouple connected (the thermocoouple to the screw terminals on the breakout). If not, that then throws a high value which should trigger the firmware maxtemp. Again, the first stage of error detection and troubleshooting is that if the thermocouple to the breakout board is a broken connection, then the AD597 itself throws a maxtemp signal of 5V down the analog wire to the mainboard telling the mainboard you are at 500C (10mV per C).
If you suspect a thermocouple wire has broken, you can either check the thermocouple itself disconnected with a meter for continuity since a thermocouple itself is nothing more than 2 special wires welded together at the sending end, so it's a dead short loop of wire to a meter.
You can test the breakout board by taking any wire and simply shorting the 2 screw terminals for the thermocouple sensor connection. You do have to restart the system after inserting a short jumper wire as the firmware must reset to sense this new state. It would then read room temp, about 23-24C typically.

#2 The next stage is assumes you have the thermal protection board and it is installed in your printer. If you do not have this critical device, you really shouldn't be printing, but that's another discussion for another day. Point being, the thermal safety board simply pulls the mainboard into maxtemp if a proper temp within normal range is not coming across the ribbon cable. If you placed the shorting wire across the thermocouple screw terminals at the breakout, and you are sure your ribbon cable is good. Then with a thermal protector installed at the mainboard, if it still reports maxtemp- that means your ribbon cable is still bad. Again, just to understand this test state, you've attached a short wire shorting the thermcouple inputs at the extruder breakout. This causes the 2 AD597 thermocouple amps to send their own actual temp down the ribbon cable. That would be a good valid in range signal (again, 10mV per C so 23C is 0.23V) across the wire in the ribbon cable. If that fails to reach the mainboard due to a break anywhere in that ribbon cable, the safety board at the mainboard is trying to pull the analog sense pin to 5V (500C). This triggers maxtemp in firmware. However, if you get a good signal, then the LCD would be showing 23-24C typically and boot normally with no error message.
Last edited by Jetguy on Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Jetguy
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Re: Board Error 00 Extruder switched off. MAX...

Postby Jetguy » Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:06 pm

If you unplug both the thermal protector and you unplug the ribbon cable so that nothing is plugged into the mainboard, wait at least 10 minutes with the printer in the off state, Then in theory, you should this time get a mintemp error upon booting. That would indicate the mainboard with no thermal protector is working. Then power off the printer again, wait 10 minutes, plug in the ribbon cable again, without thermal protector, plug in your extruder head breakout board, with a jumper wire across the thermocouple inputs. This should boot up and show room temp. If it shows mintemp or maxtemp (again, these tests with no thermal protector here in the cabling) you either have a bad ribbon cable or the extruder breakout is not working. I have to be honest, the AD597 is an industrial chip well known and used in industry and they are extremely reliable. As such, in all my time in the Raise 3D groups since the Kickstarter, I can say with confidence there has not been a single example of a failed breakout board. It simply doesn't happen.

My first 2 candidates are:
#1 thermocouple itself to the screw terminal of the breakout board. This would throw a maxtemp error
#2 a failed ribbon cable, but ONLY when a thermal protector is installed. This is because that's the job of the thermal protector, to show a maxtemp error when the cable breaks. If you don't have a thermal protector installed, the only 2 ways to get a maxtemp error report at the mainboard is that your thermocouple is broken connection at the extruder breakout screw terminals, and the AD 597 chip is sending maxtemp over the ribbon cable, or your extruder really is over maxtemp and it's sending a real signal over the ribbon cable. If the ribbon cable is failed, and you do not have a thermal protector, then we expect a mintemp error, and that may only be detected when the mainboard self discharges in the off state (the 10 minute wait) and you power on from the discharged state and since the cable is broken, the pin does not charge up to a normal within range temp voltage sent by the extruder breakout board.

pearson222
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Re: Board Error 00 Extruder switched off. MAX...

Postby pearson222 » Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:13 pm

Thanks a lot for the information Jetguy. I do have thermal protector installed. I will follow your instructions for testing.

Jetguy
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Re: Board Error 00 Extruder switched off. MAX...

Postby Jetguy » Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:17 pm

Hopefully you can walk it through. I just bench tested this procedure with a raise 3D mainboard set beside me while typing and confirmed the expected outputs based on the procedure.


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