New N2PLus.... shall I go BondTech straight away?

Topics around mechanical design, controller and electronics. Mods & hacks welcome.
Midlands3D
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:41 am

New N2PLus.... shall I go BondTech straight away?

Postby Midlands3D » Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:10 am

My N2 Plus arrives later today and I'm now spending a bit more time in the forum. It seems the BondTech extruder seems to be a 'must do' upgrade (wish I'd factored that into the cost before pulling the trigger!). Should I just go ahead and get it from the start? it sounds like the weight saving alone will make a big difference?

Rogman
Posts: 126
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2016 12:37 pm

Re: New N2PLus.... shall I go BondTech straight away?

Postby Rogman » Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:35 pm

It's not a "must do", but it's one that I have done on all my printers (Raise3d or not). The mechanics behind the extruder system just plain beat any single hobbed or single drive gear/idler wheel (bearing) set-up. I have not had any hiccups going from maker flex/ NinjaTek to Gmass's tungsten filled and virtual foundry's copper filled.

Anubis
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 12:58 am

Re: New N2PLus.... shall I go BondTech straight away?

Postby Anubis » Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:17 pm

As I see it, there are two primary reasons to get a Bondtch upgrade, the rest is gravy:

1. If you want to print TPU and can't get it to work with stock extruder (Ninjaflex is the hardest to print).
2. You want to slightly improve surface finish at medium and high print speed (reduce 'ringing').

If neither of these apply to you, then I say it's not necessary. Either way, I'd recommend trying the stock extruder first, it works just fine.

buddurham
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2018 5:53 am

Re: New N2PLus.... shall I go BondTech straight away?

Postby buddurham » Tue Mar 27, 2018 6:01 am

These are very good out of the box machines but tinkering and upgrading can be part of the hobby. I would suggest just getting some PETG filament and make some cool stuff. I am going to upgrade mine because I have a duel extruder and I want to print with Nylon. This is very difficult and have already ground down some filament trying to retract enough to prevent oozing with the temperature set as low as possible.
So I need to but if you want to print cool stuff with PLA PETG ABS or even Cheetah you should be good to go

zemlin
Posts: 357
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2017 2:02 pm

Re: New N2PLus.... shall I go BondTech straight away?

Postby zemlin » Tue Mar 27, 2018 12:25 pm

I have an N2 and an N2+. I had the Bondtech in-hand before either of them arrived. I use an N2 at the day job and I keep bugging the boss to order a Bondtech for that one.

It is not a Must-Have on the N2+, but it is a You-Won't-Regret-It-For-A-Minute upgrade.

Titon
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2018 1:31 pm

Re: New N2PLus.... shall I go BondTech straight away?

Postby Titon » Tue Mar 27, 2018 6:05 pm

zemlin wrote:I have an N2 and an N2+. I had the Bondtech in-hand before either of them arrived. I use an N2 at the day job and I keep bugging the boss to order a Bondtech for that one.

It is not a Must-Have on the N2+, but it is a You-Won't-Regret-It-For-A-Minute upgrade.

For someone that is new to the Raise N2 game can you tell me how the extruder functions loading the filament? Does it still work the same as the stock unit or do you loose some of the base load and unload functions of the unit?

zemlin
Posts: 357
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2017 2:02 pm

Re: New N2PLus.... shall I go BondTech straight away?

Postby zemlin » Tue Mar 27, 2018 6:12 pm

You don't lose a thing.

Titon
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2018 1:31 pm

Re: New N2PLus.... shall I go BondTech straight away?

Postby Titon » Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:06 pm

zemlin wrote:You don't lose a thing.


Sounds good.

Thanks!

Fiesel
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2018 3:42 pm

Re: New N2PLus.... shall I go BondTech straight away?

Postby Fiesel » Wed Mar 28, 2018 3:40 pm

I upgraded and honestly don't see big differences in print quality. I was able to raise jerk from 1.2 to 1.5 which saves a few minutes print time here and there. And I can print a lil faster with thick layers because bondtech has more power to push the filament down the throat without biting holes into the wire.
But thats details only. I guess best strategy is to keep it stock at first and wait until something at the original extruder breaks and has to be replaced anyway.

zemlin
Posts: 357
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2017 2:02 pm

Re: New N2PLus.... shall I go BondTech straight away?

Postby zemlin » Wed Mar 28, 2018 3:54 pm

This is the surface finish difference I see between the factory extruder drive and the Bondtech.

N2 Extruder Compare.jpg

Squenz
Posts: 140
Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2017 11:18 pm
Location: Stuttgart/Germany

Re: New N2PLus.... shall I go BondTech straight away?

Postby Squenz » Wed Mar 28, 2018 5:05 pm

In general, there are two real big problems with any fdm-printer. First is getting and keeping the print stuck to the build plate during operation and getting it off when it's done, second is getting the filament feeded, the exact amount of filament as commanded by the gcode you deliver to the machine. ANY filament i want to print, slow, fast, no retraction, A LOT of retraction, hard and brittle or NinjaFlex rubber. The drive should handle everything i feed without thinking about it.

I for one expirienced a LOT of feeding problems with my previous life-time-consumer (notice the term!), more than enough so that, when i looked into a new printer after more than one year of forgetting what happened, i immediately went for the BondTech after reading a lot of good reviews and looking into the principle difference of the filament drive. I'm not saying the standard drive is bad, i really can't judge that, i'm saying i fitted the BondTech and forgot about any feeding problem, never expirierienced heat creep and such. To quote Thomas Sanlader from youtube, "it just works". I really recommending calibrating the E-Steps instead of just hacking a number into the firmware, though.

So, for me, everything else than having a hundred percent reliable feeding system is icing on the cake. Those might be big icings for one or another guy, but that's up to the purpose of the machine. I'm very happy with the BondTech DualDirect and i forgot the price i paid the day after i fitted it. That's one of the biggest compliments a cheap, swabian guy like me has to offer. Period.

Squenz
Posts: 140
Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2017 11:18 pm
Location: Stuttgart/Germany

Re: New N2PLus.... shall I go BondTech straight away?

Postby Squenz » Wed Mar 28, 2018 5:07 pm

zemlin wrote:This is the surface finish difference I see between the factory extruder drive and the Bondtech.



Well, that's impressive. You mean, if i like to have such a beautiful pattern on my prints, i'd just to mount the stock drive ? :D :D :D

Francisco munoz
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:18 pm
Location: chicago

Re: New N2PLus.... shall I go BondTech straight away?

Postby Francisco munoz » Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:46 am

Midlands3D wrote:My N2 Plus arrives later today and I'm now spending a bit more time in the forum. It seems the BondTech extruder seems to be a 'must do' upgrade (wish I'd factored that into the cost before pulling the trigger!). Should I just go ahead and get it from the start? it sounds like the weight saving alone will make a big difference?


It's fairly time consuming to watch the YouTube videos its in Swedish and it only confused me horrendously if your good at reverse engineering installation is not so bad other than that it will improve speed and printer efficiency also hardend nozzle or my case ruby nozzle and its the best printer around

Francisco munoz
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:18 pm
Location: chicago

Re: New N2PLus.... shall I go BondTech straight away?

Postby Francisco munoz » Sun Apr 08, 2018 2:17 pm

Midlands3D wrote:My N2 Plus arrives later today and I'm now spending a bit more time in the forum. It seems the BondTech extruder seems to be a 'must do' upgrade (wish I'd factored that into the cost before pulling the trigger!). Should I just go ahead and get it from the start? it sounds like the weight saving alone will make a big difference?


Where to begin so after 2 days back and forth no print.So the original left is now right side with this extruder so I go load left and as it should the original right side heats up but not the left so you load left and the right nozzle heats up can anyone know why this is happening bontech takes hrs to respond

zemlin
Posts: 357
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2017 2:02 pm

Re: New N2PLus.... shall I go BondTech straight away?

Postby zemlin » Sun Apr 08, 2018 4:27 pm

Francisco munoz wrote:Where to begin so after 2 days back and forth no print.So the original left is now right side with this extruder so I go load left and as it should the original right side heats up but not the left so you load left and the right nozzle heats up can anyone know why this is happening bontech takes hrs to respond


The Bondtech has NOTHING to do with the hot ends. You may have knocked a connector loose when doing the exchange, but Bondtech won't be able to help you.

You need to look at the connections to the heater elements on the breakout board that you moved when doing the upgrade.

Francisco munoz
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:18 pm
Location: chicago

Re: New N2PLus.... shall I go BondTech straight away?

Postby Francisco munoz » Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:37 am

Yea that's what it was I switched the wires to reverse the motor but when i connected them back I put them in reverse bondtech actually told me the same thing but not before I wanted to pull my hair out from frustration and fixed it on my own i know some things take patients and focus i traced the lines back just to figure out a simple mistake im still a rookie at this but we all start somewhere im starting programs in Chicago's worst neighborhoods and first step is mastering 3d printing by next year Chicago wont be the same


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