N1 Fan Mods

Topics around mechanical design, controller and electronics. Mods & hacks welcome.
krohelm
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2017 11:12 pm

N1 Fan Mods

Postby krohelm » Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:51 am

While wrapping my hotend with ceramic insulation I noticed an extra suspicious hole that was tapped on the side of the print head. Calipers measured it at around 32mm. So I bought a Noctua 40mm fan, modeled a new shroud and sure enough, it bolts on as if it were always intended to be there!

It's no taller than the original setup, nor is it deeper. It's just a 40mm silent fan rather than a 35mm noisy fan. Moves a respectable amount of air too. I reached out to Noctua and they're developing a 50mm fan. Once that's available I'll be replacing the fan on the other side as well. My hotend is starting to look pretty good!

40mm Hotend Fan
IMAG2769.jpg


IMAG2771.jpg



Better Motion Board Cooling
The motion board on an N1 is in a case that has a small opening on the bottom for the wires to exit. There's a hyper-powered centrifugal server fan at the top of that case, which circulates hot air around the box, albeit really quickly. It's super loud though - so I've replaced it with an 80mm fan which draws cool air from the area under the cover, and exits via the wire hole at the bottom. Much quieter now, and you can feel air moving around the printer's base.

IMAG2779.jpg


IMAG2781.jpg

DetroitCW
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2017 10:53 pm

Re: N1 Fan Mods

Postby DetroitCW » Tue Feb 27, 2018 2:54 am

How thick is the Noctua out put in the main board box? I am considering printing a duct to get air over the steppers.

Noctua is brilliant. I use their fans in everything I do.

Jetguy
Posts: 2700
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 1:40 am
Location: In a van, down by the river

Re: N1 Fan Mods

Postby Jetguy » Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:27 am

There was an alternate way here. The electronics bay is a perfectly fine blower with dual ball bearings and high quality. It's just full on at 12V. By simply powering with a 5V regulator, it still supplies ample airflow but reduces the noise to near silent.
No need to change fans, hack big holes in a cover, basically do mods that cannot be "undone".
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=16&p=23&hilit=blower#p23
I've been running that way for 2 years straight on the original N2 in the picture and my more recent N1 and N2Plus have just slightly less than 2 years on them. Never had a stepper overheat, never had mainboard failure, not a single skipped step ever related to this mod and I have 3 printers running beside me while typing this- my refrigerator fan is louder than the printers- all 3 combined.

I'm not saying this mod is not viable, just looking at it from a warranty and "what most users are willing to do to a brand new $2k machine"

Jetguy
Posts: 2700
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 1:40 am
Location: In a van, down by the river

Re: N1 Fan Mods

Postby Jetguy » Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:40 am

Also, you can use the other logic controlled fan output on the extruder head breakout and instead of constant on fans, you can make custom firmware from source that the extruder heatsink cooling fan only comes on when the extruder hotend is above 50C (or whatever temp you code in, but that's the fairly standard setting even across brands). The only limitation being that the extruder head breakout only has 2 logical controlled ports for fans. If you have a dual extruder printer, you have to make decisions. You could control both factory fan locations with temp control individually, but then you have no gcode controlled port option. You could make a Y splitter for one port and power both fans and use the condition that if either hotend is greater than 50C the fans are on, and that then leaves the gcode controlled print layer fan port open so you can add a third cooling fan/blower just for layer cooling. Details around that and how to edit firmware are in that thread viewtopic.php?f=13&t=1919&hilit=temp+controlled+fan

head breakout2.jpg


In addition, there is an unused mainboard port that is factory setup for 24V output for maybe a 3rd heater or some other function. The issue is, it's 24V and most fans and stuff you want to swap or power (mainboard cooling fan or LED strips for example are 12V). As such, you can modify the mainboard with a simple jumper wire and remove the large 0 Ohm resistor to feed that output 12V instead of 24V. Obviously you need to edit firmware and assign the function- but just sharing "what exists" and what can be done.
Attachments
RRD-RUMBA_SCHEMATICS.png
HE2 12V solder point1.jpg
HE2 12V wiring mod2.jpg
HE2 12v mod.jpg

DetroitCW
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2017 10:53 pm

Re: N1 Fan Mods

Postby DetroitCW » Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:03 am

That is ideal, Jetguy.

I have a metric ton of the jst connectors here from multiple other projects.

You beat me to the pinout. Thanks!

Jetguy
Posts: 2700
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 1:40 am
Location: In a van, down by the river

Re: N1 Fan Mods

Postby Jetguy » Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:07 am

Just another note. Marlin firmware source code supports turning on a fan whenever the steppers are enabled for board cooling. The issue is, if you use that, then when the steppers are not enabled, the 2 parts on the mainboard that could get hot are the heated bed FET and regulators for 12V and 5V from the 24V input. Maybe with coding make the output 2 speed, low constant on and then a higher rate when steppers are enabled. Again, the fault in the logic is that a user could preheat the bed, not enable the steppers, and the fan would not be on from the standard logic in the firmware as provided in the source.
https://github.com/Raise3D/Marlin-Raise ... tion_adv.h
Starting at line 61
//This is for controlling a fan to cool down the stepper drivers
//it will turn on when any driver is enabled
//and turn off after the set amount of seconds from last driver being disabled again
#define CONTROLLERFAN_PIN -1 //Pin used for the fan to cool controller (-1 to disable)
#define CONTROLLERFAN_SECS 60 //How many seconds, after all motors were disabled, the fan should run
#define CONTROLLERFAN_SPEED 255 // == full speed

// When first starting the main fan, run it at full speed for the
// given number of milliseconds. This gets the fan spinning reliably
// before setting a PWM value. (Does not work with software PWM for fan on Sanguinololu)
//#define FAN_KICKSTART_TIME 100

// Extruder cooling fans
// Configure fan pin outputs to automatically turn on/off when the associated
// extruder temperature is above/below EXTRUDER_AUTO_FAN_TEMPERATURE.
// Multiple extruders can be assigned to the same pin in which case
// the fan will turn on when any selected extruder is above the threshold.
#define EXTRUDER_0_AUTO_FAN_PIN -1
#define EXTRUDER_1_AUTO_FAN_PIN -1
#define EXTRUDER_2_AUTO_FAN_PIN -1
#define EXTRUDER_3_AUTO_FAN_PIN -1
#define EXTRUDER_AUTO_FAN_TEMPERATURE 50
#define EXTRUDER_AUTO_FAN_SPEED 255 // == full speed

krohelm
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2017 11:12 pm

Re: N1 Fan Mods

Postby krohelm » Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:17 am

DetroitCW, are you asking how strong the air force is? It's directionally nothing like the blower, but it draws cool air this way, and the shape of the box directs that cool air along the board. The original blower uses impressive force, but is really "circulating" the air in the box rather than exchanging it. There is healthy airflow out of the wire hole on the other end of the box with this mod. Since having an interaction with Noctua support (lol an overseas fan company with excellent support) once I've never been able to make an excuse to buy a different fan brand.

That's great feedback Jetguy, thanks! I don't expect to have mainboard failure or overheats with this mod. Also, to undo all that is necessary is to put an unmolested cover on. It's a pretty basic item, and having considered the 5v regulator mod (which I'm completely comfortable with) I still chose this path. $2k won't break me if this kills my printer, but this is definitely no worse than an undervolted, unducted blower - and SSO2 bearings beat dual ball on small fans any day. ;-)

I considered not sharing that I had done this to favor warranty, but I'd rather offer ideas and to and receive feedback from the community. I hope it doesn't burn me later :-) but oh well if it does.

...this forum is cool, it notified me of your response before letting me post the above! I'll look into messing with the firmware when I have some spare coding time. It should be really straightforward to modify from a cursory inspection (and you've already done it, so I'd just be retracing what you did or turning it into a PR for the main repo). I'm definitely keeping this a single-extruder printer. No interest in dual extrusion. Now a Palette+ maybe I'd be tempted by...

I turn off my printer when I won't be using it for hours, so the always on fans don't bother me. The absolute noise level during operation is a chore though. I'm also working on a temperature controlling, venting & filtering lid that fits the original N1 crazy tall wire tube. Will have that complete in a couple months probably.

DetroitCW
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2017 10:53 pm

Re: N1 Fan Mods

Postby DetroitCW » Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:21 am

Jetguy wrote:Just another note. Marlin firmware source code supports turning on a fan whenever the steppers are enabled for board cooling. The issue is, if you use that, then when the steppers are not enabled, the 2 parts on the mainboard that could get hot are the heated bed FET and regulators for 12V and 5V from the 24V input. Maybe with coding make the output 2 speed, low constant on and then a higher rate when steppers are enabled. Again, the fault in the logic is that a user could preheat the bed, not enable the steppers, and the fan would not be on from the standard logic in the firmware as provided in the source.
https://github.com/Raise3D/Marlin-Raise ... tion_adv.h


I am concerned that the last push to that repo was Dec 27th, 2016. That's well over a year ago. I am not sure how current the official Raise3d firmware is in relation to that repo.

I assume that there's been changes in the motion control firmware in the past 14 months?

Jetguy
Posts: 2700
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 1:40 am
Location: In a van, down by the river

Re: N1 Fan Mods

Postby Jetguy » Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:24 am

You are also seeing the difference here.
We can hack the snot out of the mainboard because we have most of the schematic, know most if not all of the pinouts, and the kicker is, we have source firmware code. It's just a lot more advanced user friendly.

The front panel pcDuino and the QT5 custom compiled Raise 3D touch interface app that runs on top- we don't have the source, we don't have the development details, we are locked into what Raise3D provides for updates and features to that part of the total system. That's why your other request is the answers I provided.

And, defending what I said about drilling and hacking a fan in, the difference is, you can buy a new mainboard right in the store. You have to contact support to get a new housing cover. Things that can be undone vs things that definitely are more permanent. That's all I'm trying to get at with that previous statement. Nothing wrong with the Noctua fan mod. If that is what you like, by all means do it. Also thanks to user krohelm for bringing up the topic and showing their version of the mod. There are multiple ways to achieve the same goal and make the printer better. I'm hoping I gave additional info and ideas that can be combine with whatever fan mod you choose.

Jetguy
Posts: 2700
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 1:40 am
Location: In a van, down by the river

Re: N1 Fan Mods

Postby Jetguy » Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:31 am

I am concerned that the last push to that repo was Dec 27th, 2016. That's well over a year ago. I am not sure how current the official Raise3d firmware is in relation to that repo.

I assume that there's been changes in the motion control firmware in the past 14 months?


Yes, I linked the official firmware source that is current and the latest 1.1.6. https://github.com/Raise3D/Marlin-Raise3D-N-Series
Not every file was touched so yes, some source remains older because the options never changed. Most options are contained in the 2 most common files, configuration.h and configuration_adv.h

But, you may choose one of the branches that is much more updated by other fellow users and is more up to date and has features not yet enabled in Raise 3D official firmware. Examples are linear advance for the extruder and filament runout sensor detection viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6244&hilit=linear

Both user ABH and Firesped have their own github firmware versions and some are much newer https://github.com/Raise3D/Marlin-Raise ... es/network

EldRick
Posts: 355
Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2017 5:55 am

Re: N1 Fan Mods

Postby EldRick » Tue Feb 27, 2018 6:02 pm

You have to contact support to get a new housing cover.


Well No, actually you could easily print one. There is a cover design available which also improves circulation somewhat with a duct bringing air in the bottom which feeds into the fan intake.

firesped
Posts: 854
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2016 9:23 pm
Location: Tucson, AZ

Re: N1 Fan Mods

Postby firesped » Tue Feb 27, 2018 6:18 pm

There are features to turn on the cold end fans when it is heating but we would need to know the pinout of those fans, if they are connected to the processor or not.
RL name: Michael Nolen
printers:
raise3D N2 kickstarter Early Bird
Trinus Deluxe (running smoothieware on Azteeg X5 GT board)
Monoprice Maker Select v2


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