Filament Run-out Sensor Add-on

Topics around mechanical design, controller and electronics. Mods & hacks welcome.
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JohnSays
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Re: Filament Run-out Sensor Add-on

Postby JohnSays » Fri May 25, 2018 4:58 pm

Iamkar33m wrote:Can someone post a picture of the filament path with the sensor? It's hard to imagine without pictures.

IMG_8059.JPG
- John
2 Raise3D N2 Duals, V2 nozzles, Bondtech BMGs, adjustable table, Panucatt SD2224 drivers, run-out sensor, thermal overload protection resistors on motion controller board, Firmware 1.1.8ABH - with Lin_Advance, Palette+

kencfii
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Re: Filament Run-out Sensor Add-on

Postby kencfii » Fri May 25, 2018 5:03 pm

John
Can I ask how you polished it without the drill press?

Thanks

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JohnSays
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Re: Filament Run-out Sensor Add-on

Postby JohnSays » Fri May 25, 2018 6:53 pm

All I did was use the very small conical stone from my Dremel grinder and turned it in the hole with my fingers. Then I pushed the filament in at odd angles to see if would catch. I stopped polishing when it wouldn't catch anymore.
- John
2 Raise3D N2 Duals, V2 nozzles, Bondtech BMGs, adjustable table, Panucatt SD2224 drivers, run-out sensor, thermal overload protection resistors on motion controller board, Firmware 1.1.8ABH - with Lin_Advance, Palette+

kencfii
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Re: Filament Run-out Sensor Add-on

Postby kencfii » Fri May 25, 2018 6:57 pm

Ok thanks

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JohnSays
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Re: Filament Run-out Sensor Add-on

Postby JohnSays » Sat May 26, 2018 2:09 am

Well, I ran into a little problem with my run-out sensor operation. Really no fault of R3D or the sensor. I print sequentially whenever I can. Today I was printing sequentially and the filament ran out. The print head headed straight back to Home and slammed into the last print printed, Thus ruining two prints instantly. I had not thought of the repercussions of running out of filament when one model is being printed behind another. This won't usually be problem for me because I only have one model that has enough height that it has to be split once to be printed.

So I bring this up for anyone else printing sequentially that we have one more thing to think ahead about...
- John
2 Raise3D N2 Duals, V2 nozzles, Bondtech BMGs, adjustable table, Panucatt SD2224 drivers, run-out sensor, thermal overload protection resistors on motion controller board, Firmware 1.1.8ABH - with Lin_Advance, Palette+

Iamkar33m
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Re: Filament Run-out Sensor Add-on

Postby Iamkar33m » Sat May 26, 2018 3:35 am

JohnSays wrote:Well, I ran into a little problem with my run-out sensor operation. Really no fault of R3D or the sensor. I print sequentially whenever I can. Today I was printing sequentially and the filament ran out. The print head headed straight back to Home and slammed into the last print printed, Thus ruining two prints instantly. I had not thought of the repercussions of running out of filament when one model is being printed behind another. This won't usually be problem for me because I only have one model that has enough height that it has to be split once to be printed.

So I bring this up for anyone else printing sequentially that we have one more thing to think ahead about...


Thanks for the photo. May I ask why you print sequentially rather than all at once?

Jab136
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Re: Filament Run-out Sensor Add-on

Postby Jab136 » Sat May 26, 2018 10:57 am

JohnSays wrote:Well, I ran into a little problem with my run-out sensor operation. Really no fault of R3D or the sensor. I print sequentially whenever I can. Today I was printing sequentially and the filament ran out. The print head headed straight back to Home and slammed into the last print printed, Thus ruining two prints instantly. I had not thought of the repercussions of running out of filament when one model is being printed behind another. This won't usually be problem for me because I only have one model that has enough height that it has to be split once to be printed.

So I bring this up for anyone else printing sequentially that we have one more thing to think ahead about...


just change the order that the parts are printed in so that the part furthest from home is printed first...

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JohnSays
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Re: Filament Run-out Sensor Add-on

Postby JohnSays » Sat May 26, 2018 2:44 pm

Jab136 wrote:
JohnSays wrote:just change the order that the parts are printed in so that the part furthest from home is printed first...


Yes, and that is what I do. However, there is still a potential problem. I had the following happen: What if the parts are not all the same height? If the tall prints go in the back and are printed first that could work except that when the shorter parts in the front are finished and the gantry goes back to finish the parts in the rear the printheads may collide with the unfinished parts. Why? Because the head flies diagonally such that the nozzle arrives where it is supposed to start printing and that path may take it through the incomplete part if the spot selected is at the rear of the incomplete part. Collision. BANG. You can try to figure out how much height difference can be tolerated and print the parts in more sections, but, for me, that defeats the purpose of trying to print each part in full before going onto the next. FAiling that, as in this example, I tried to print the taller parts in two sections.

Now put those same tall parts in the front -- where they must go. No matter what order they print in, you can get a situation where it is impossible to Pause the print without a collision.

Example looking at two of four parts in the front:

    (1) Print the right part first and the left part will complete on the second pass. Now it is taller than the right part and if you have to Pause the right part, you cannot because the printhead will smack into the left part.

    (2) Print the left part first and then the printhead moves to print the right. If you have to Pause before the right part is finished its first pass, then the printhead will collide with the left part.
Lastly, it actually does not matter if the parts are not all the same height. Number (2) above is always true unless you can manage to pause while the printhead is as far to the front as possible so that it will miss the left hand part when it homes.

Also, in the above, I was referring to prints that I had done that take up most of the space on the plate with only 4 parts -- accounting for the printhead dimensions. Now what if you put 20 small parts on the bed -- as I often do. Run out of filament on the last row on the right hand side and the nozzle is likely to take out a few parts. Placing them on an angle and further apart would solve that problem.

My point in writing this is to bring awareness to these exact seemingly minor but potentially important possible problems. On the 4 large models, there is actually no solution other than to not Pause and not run out of filament if printing sequentially. Or, do not try to print 4 parts at once like this. As I state, there is a solution for the smaller models but you have to be aware of the potential problem. In no treatise on sequential printing had I read about these, uh, nuances.
- John
2 Raise3D N2 Duals, V2 nozzles, Bondtech BMGs, adjustable table, Panucatt SD2224 drivers, run-out sensor, thermal overload protection resistors on motion controller board, Firmware 1.1.8ABH - with Lin_Advance, Palette+

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JohnSays
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Re: Filament Run-out Sensor Add-on

Postby JohnSays » Sat May 26, 2018 2:48 pm

Iamkar33m wrote:
JohnSays wrote:Thanks for the photo. May I ask why you print sequentially rather than all at once?


In a phrase, layer adhesion. Particularly with PETG where I need as much strength as I can get. Secondly, for consistency and uniformity of the layers. Printed in one go I do not see the change in layers. It is a very smooth transition from one layer to the next. Compare one part printed at once in on ego, with two of the same parts printed one layer at a time alternately. You will see the difference. We shouldn't in a perfect world, but I see it on my printers.
- John
2 Raise3D N2 Duals, V2 nozzles, Bondtech BMGs, adjustable table, Panucatt SD2224 drivers, run-out sensor, thermal overload protection resistors on motion controller board, Firmware 1.1.8ABH - with Lin_Advance, Palette+

SnowRunner321
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Re: Filament Run-out Sensor Add-on

Postby SnowRunner321 » Tue May 29, 2018 12:26 pm

I was able to move the location of the filament runout sensor by redesigning the back cover. It can be mounted on top of the extruder (I use bondtech) which gives a much straighter path for the filament to pass through. The filament slides through easily and doesn't hang up at all and I didn't have to drill/modify the metal part of the sensor. The link for the back cover is below.

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2928920
Attachments
20180529_080823.jpg

claytony565
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Re: Filament Run-out Sensor Add-on

Postby claytony565 » Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:19 pm

Well thought I would go ahead and chime in on this thread here. I have installed the filament sensor on our N2 Plus at work and it does absolutely nothing when filament runs out. I have even started a print with no filament and it starts like normal and ghost prints. Pretty disappointed in this "upgrade." I have just opted to switch of the filament sensor in the settings and continued printing as normal.

pmb
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Re: Filament Run-out Sensor Add-on

Postby pmb » Sat Jun 02, 2018 3:01 am

Hello All,
I was rather disappointed with the Raise3D taped-on sensor mounting method so I came up with the following alternative method. It takes a couple of hours to complete but (I believe) it is superior. This mounting method has the following advantages:

- Straighter filament path - less drag
- Pre-feed guide - less drag / easier threading
- Status LEDs are visible - easier troubleshooting
- Easy disassembly for cleaning
- Looks like it is part of the machine (not a taped-on add-on)

1.) Print the attached Filament Sensor Mount STL file with 100% fill; left image foreground
Filament Sensor Mount.stl
(275.9 KiB) Downloaded 36 times


2.) Use the printed part as a template to transfer the mounting and filament holes to the printer top, use a 1/16" bit; middle image
3.) Drill out the printer holes as follows: mounting holes on 45 degree face - .166", filament holes - .234", ribbon cable hole - .375" without a hole grommet, .500" with. Be careful drilling the larger hole; standard bits have a tendency to grab, use a step bit if you have one.
Image 1.JPG


4.) Tap the Filament Sensor Mount as follows: 45 degree mounting holes - M4, sensor assembly mounting holes - M3
5.) Drill out the filament hole to .076" (screw sensor assembly to sensor mount and use as a drill guide to ensure proper hole alignment), countersink to .200" diameter (60 degree preferred, 82 degree okay); left image
6.) Tap the top of the sensor assembly M5 x .200" deep for the tube fittings; right image
Image 2.JPG


7.) Assemble and mount using M4 x 10mm screws, 12mm if using washers and lock washers. Tube fittings are SMC KQ2H04-M5A or equivalent.
Image 3.JPG


Regards,
pmb

Jab136
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Re: Filament Run-out Sensor Add-on

Postby Jab136 » Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:44 am

SnowRunner321 wrote:I was able to move the location of the filament runout sensor by redesigning the back cover. It can be mounted on top of the extruder (I use bondtech) which gives a much straighter path for the filament to pass through. The filament slides through easily and doesn't hang up at all and I didn't have to drill/modify the metal part of the sensor. The link for the back cover is below.

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2928920

that location may not give enough warning for the pause function, and would also add a significant amount of weight to the print head which would impede printing at higher velocities.

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Filament Run-out Sensor Add-on

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Sun Jun 03, 2018 3:09 pm

claytony565 wrote:Well thought I would go ahead and chime in on this thread here. I have installed the filament sensor on our N2 Plus at work and it does absolutely nothing when filament runs out. I have even started a print with no filament and it starts like normal and ghost prints. Pretty disappointed in this "upgrade." I have just opted to switch of the filament sensor in the settings and continued printing as normal.


Would you like to shoot us a support ticket (help.raise3d.com). It should be due to something wrong during the installation nor hardware itself.

SnowRunner321
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Re: Filament Run-out Sensor Add-on

Postby SnowRunner321 » Mon Jun 04, 2018 12:36 pm

Jab136 wrote:
SnowRunner321 wrote:I was able to move the location of the filament runout sensor by redesigning the back cover. It can be mounted on top of the extruder (I use bondtech) which gives a much straighter path for the filament to pass through. The filament slides through easily and doesn't hang up at all and I didn't have to drill/modify the metal part of the sensor. The link for the back cover is below.

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2928920

that location may not give enough warning for the pause function, and would also add a significant amount of weight to the print head which would impede printing at higher velocities.


There is the possibility that the location may not give enough warning for the pause function, but so far I'm 3 for 3 with this location. I didn't want to raise it any further from the extruder due to potential stability issues and increased weight. Adding the sensor to this location will negate some of the weight advantages of the bondtech, but I print at slow/medium speeds anyways and I haven't noticed an issue. I originally was trying to get it to be located where pmb has it located, but I couldn't figure out how to do it without drilling through the printer case and I wanted to avoid doing that if possible.

claytony565
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Re: Filament Run-out Sensor Add-on

Postby claytony565 » Tue Jun 05, 2018 4:12 pm

Vicky@Raise3D wrote:
claytony565 wrote:Well thought I would go ahead and chime in on this thread here. I have installed the filament sensor on our N2 Plus at work and it does absolutely nothing when filament runs out. I have even started a print with no filament and it starts like normal and ghost prints. Pretty disappointed in this "upgrade." I have just opted to switch of the filament sensor in the settings and continued printing as normal.


Would you like to shoot us a support ticket (help.raise3d.com). It should be due to something wrong during the installation nor hardware itself.


I have, I did not receive an answer from 25 days ago. I was told to reload the firmware update and to "take the sensor out first since the light may be blocked when it is installed." I asked for clarification of the light and what he meant by taking the sensor out first and I received no answer. We now have a Pro2 and I can see where the light it supposed to be, but it is covered by 3M adhesive on the N2+ upgrade. I would also like to add that because of the angle the filament sensor has to be installed it creates a tremendous amount of friction on the filament and has subsequently caused a jam. I have not particularly worried about the filament sensor because we now have a bad ribbon cable that does not allow our printer to even function.

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Filament Run-out Sensor Add-on

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:15 am

claytony565 wrote:
Vicky@Raise3D wrote:
claytony565 wrote:Well thought I would go ahead and chime in on this thread here. I have installed the filament sensor on our N2 Plus at work and it does absolutely nothing when filament runs out. I have even started a print with no filament and it starts like normal and ghost prints. Pretty disappointed in this "upgrade." I have just opted to switch of the filament sensor in the settings and continued printing as normal.


Would you like to shoot us a support ticket (help.raise3d.com). It should be due to something wrong during the installation nor hardware itself.


I have, I did not receive an answer from 25 days ago. I was told to reload the firmware update and to "take the sensor out first since the light may be blocked when it is installed." I asked for clarification of the light and what he meant by taking the sensor out first and I received no answer. We now have a Pro2 and I can see where the light it supposed to be, but it is covered by 3M adhesive on the N2+ upgrade. I would also like to add that because of the angle the filament sensor has to be installed it creates a tremendous amount of friction on the filament and has subsequently caused a jam. I have not particularly worried about the filament sensor because we now have a bad ribbon cable that does not allow our printer to even function.


Would you like to PM me your ticket number? Will find some people to follow up.
Sorry for our late.

claytony565
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Re: Filament Run-out Sensor Add-on

Postby claytony565 » Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:05 pm

UPDATE: I plugged it in to the MCB upside down like a doofus.

Jetguy
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Re: Filament Run-out Sensor Add-on

Postby Jetguy » Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:32 pm

claytony565 wrote:UPDATE: I plugged it in to the MCB upside down like a doofus.

In order to best explain to others to prevent the mistake. I think you are saying you flipped the EXP3 connector with the red and back wires. It is not "keyed" and can be flipped around and still plug in- but when doing so- no power to the optical filament detectors means they cannot detect.
Again, if you mistakenly flip the red and black pin location by plugging in that EXP3 connector the wrong way, the filament sensor gets no power.
Filament sensor mainboard connections.jpg
Filament sensor harness.jpg
filament sensor mainboard connections2.jpg

EldRick
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Re: Filament Run-out Sensor Add-on

Postby EldRick » Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:09 pm

I have a run-out sensor, new in box for sale. Asking $50, plus $9 for Priority Mail to US. Send PM.


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