Improvements by using TMC2130 driver.

Topics around mechanical design, controller and electronics. Mods & hacks welcome.
Geckospot Nixie
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2017 6:31 pm

Re: Improvements by using TMC2130 driver.

Postby Geckospot Nixie » Sun May 13, 2018 1:38 pm

Hello All
I have an N2 Dual. With Bondtech dual extruder.
So the question is will I be able to print at a higher speed with these drivers without losing steps?
Right now I can print at 50mm/s on any model without issue of losing steps.
But if I try and print at 60mm/s it is hit or miss some prints are fine and the next one loses steps and get layer shift.

Jetguy
Posts: 2700
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 1:40 am
Location: In a van, down by the river

Re: Improvements by using TMC2130 driver.

Postby Jetguy » Mon May 14, 2018 11:47 am

I don't think anyone can guarantee you can print faster just because you changed a stepper driver.
Yes, these are better drivers, yes, specifically they have better heatsinks (the Panucatt SD2224 come with nice large heatsinks)
XY-Stepper-Driver-1_600x600.jpg
XY-Stepper-Driver-1_600x600.jpg (8.13 KiB) Viewed 1080 times
VS
SD2224-2.jpg

Yes, the actual driver has better current control and decay mode in the chip that should help prevent lost steps in situations where Stealthchop1 failed.

But there are other factors always at play. High speeds means the cooling fan is also not dwelling over the layer and so a layer or edge or overhang curling and a nozzle strike- heck, that can be just a result of raw speed and nothing to do with the stepper sub system.

Think about it. This printer design is nearly 3 years old. The TMC2100 driver chip is over 3 years old design. In the electronics world, every 6 months the entire industry improves by leaps and bounds. This is one of the good things and why I liked the Raise 3D mainboard, it had standardized stepper socket so that when a new chip does and will come along, you COULD upgrade. So here we are, at the now opportunity to upgrade, and we have people questioning the upgrade. It would be one thing if they were $20 each, but it's a measly $10. Heck, Raise 3D charges you $20 for single replacement TMC2100 driver in the store. No firmware changes, no soldering, just follow some basic instructions, set the switches, plug the driver in the right way, I say again, plug the driver in the correct way, check, double check, triple check, then power on a use a DC multimeter to measure the Vref and set it.

zemlin
Posts: 365
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2017 2:02 pm

Re: Improvements by using TMC2130 driver.

Postby zemlin » Mon May 14, 2018 2:45 pm

Geckospot Nixie wrote:Hello All
I have an N2 Dual. With Bondtech dual extruder.
So the question is will I be able to print at a higher speed with these drivers without losing steps?
Right now I can print at 50mm/s on any model without issue of losing steps.
But if I try and print at 60mm/s it is hit or miss some prints are fine and the next one loses steps and get layer shift.

I have run ABS at 90mm/s without skips.
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=6870
My machines have the Panucatt SD5984 drivers.

lami3d
Posts: 238
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2016 7:40 am
Location: Marseille - France

Re: Improvements by using TMC2130 driver.

Postby lami3d » Sun May 20, 2018 2:10 pm

Thanks for this topic to all of you
Sorry for John with this mistake :(

I think i'm going to do this even if i never had a skipped step.

I wanted to know the difference between SD5984 that Zemlin installed on his printers (see above) Vs SD2224 ? i try to compare specs but i'm not an expert of these.

And just in case i want to to mod Z axis, is the orientation the same as X and Y axis (with vref located at the opposite of the motor connector) ?

Thanks for your answers

Jetguy
Posts: 2700
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 1:40 am
Location: In a van, down by the river

Re: Improvements by using TMC2130 driver.

Postby Jetguy » Sun May 20, 2018 3:13 pm

Here is the difference between those 2 chips:
The SD5984 is next generation of the pretty much 3D printing baseline standard A4988 stepper driver. This is a long proven technology, simple but known stepper translator, improved current control section and lower RDS on MOSFET section (less heat generation at a given current).
It better than the standard A4988, but not IMO, the best or most advanced driver on the market. While potentially slightly more quiet than an A4988, nowhere on the same level as Trinamic silent drivers in Stealthchop modes.

SD2224- What I consider the current most advanced driver on the market today. it builds on Trinamic's previous experience and field use of the TMC2100 driver currently used for X and Y now in the Raise 3D non-Pro series.
The key features are:
#1 improving even further on the silent stealthchop2 technology over stealthchop1 in the TMC2100. This is what prevents the skipped step scenario while also maintaining the expected silence.
#2 Improved thermal performance, where again, lower RDS on MOSFETS reduce heating the driver at the same current setting.
#3 The ability to switch to a non-stealthchop mode via the 3rd switch in the stepper driver socket. Again, this lets you the user, with nothing more than a switch that already exists on the mainboard now, change mode of these drivers to change from the silent mode to ultimate performance mode if that is your choice. No firmware update in any way required to invoke this feature.
#4 specifically, the Panucatt drivers all include as standard, a larger heatsink than the factory drivers. It's not required, but a huge bonus just for upgrading.

That said, you really only need to upgrade XY IMO. You can upgrade all drivers to whatever you want, that is the wonderful thing about plug in drivers. You could go a combination of SD2224 for XY and SD5984 for Z and the 2 extruders.

lami3d
Posts: 238
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2016 7:40 am
Location: Marseille - France

Re: Improvements by using TMC2130 driver.

Postby lami3d » Sun May 20, 2018 3:17 pm

Thanks a lot for this clear explanation Jetguy !

Jetguy
Posts: 2700
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 1:40 am
Location: In a van, down by the river

Re: Improvements by using TMC2130 driver.

Postby Jetguy » Sun May 20, 2018 3:23 pm

Again, in one way, what you are comparing is kind of a different topic.
When Zemlin used SD5984 drivers, it's more akin to a change of simply not using stealthchop or silent mode.
The SD5984 is a very good driver- no doubt about it. It's based on proven and well known functionality.
Sometimes simple just works.

The Trinamic TMC series of 21XX and now 22XX drivers is somewhat unique to the industry to reduce the noise of the typical 3D printer. And, what was found was, there was a minor tradeoff in that while getting silence, absolute motor strength and thus prevention of skipped steps- there admittedly in TMC2100 was a minor but measurable difference. That coupled with some specifics of the TMC2100 stepper drivers as supplied stock in the printer, there was no switch or easy setting to change modes to a less silent "performance" mode like the newer 22XX series. Again, the 22XX series, was created to further improve on this ground breaking tech, fix the minor issues/limitations in the previous lessons learned on the 21XX series.

If you are out for just raw pure performance, and noise is not the concern, I do not have the data to tell you in actual testing on the Raise 3D printer if a SD5984 or a SD224 in performance mode wins. I will say again, if you aren't skipping now, either driver is better than the current 2100 for performance. To me, the 2224 is the correct choice, but that's my desire to stay silent as a factor in the equation.
Last edited by Jetguy on Sun May 20, 2018 4:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

lami3d
Posts: 238
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2016 7:40 am
Location: Marseille - France

Re: Improvements by using TMC2130 driver.

Postby lami3d » Sun May 20, 2018 3:42 pm

Well understood :) Thanks again !

zemlin
Posts: 365
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2017 2:02 pm

Re: Improvements by using TMC2130 driver.

Postby zemlin » Wed May 23, 2018 1:44 pm

My printers live in the garage, so noise level is way below reliability on my list of priorities. I have dampers on the X and Y motors which eliminates the bite from the singing steppers.

User avatar
JohnSays
Posts: 620
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2016 2:42 pm
Location: Saint Petersburg, FL

Re: Improvements by using TMC2130 driver.

Postby JohnSays » Thu May 24, 2018 11:15 pm

I have noticed a definite increase in print quality since switching to the SD2224 drivers. Almost no anomalies on my prints until the "zipper" area. Of course I'm using the Bondtec BMG extruder too. What I see on my circular prints is a very smooth transition from layer to layer -- the layers on the outside of the objects are lined up the way they should be and not off my a small amount like they always were no matter what I tried. The prints are almost good enough to not require any post processing such as sanding or filing. I vote this to be the most important upgrade after the Bondtec BMG.
- John
2 Raise3D N2 Duals, V2 nozzles, Bondtech BMGs, adjustable table, Panucatt SD2224 drivers, run-out sensor, thermal overload protection resistors on motion controller board, Firmware 1.1.8ABH - with Lin_Advance, Palette+

MDVolle
Posts: 56
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2017 9:00 pm
Location: Fullerton CA

Re: Improvements by using TMC2130 driver.

Postby MDVolle » Sat Jun 02, 2018 6:01 am

Just making sure I understand - if I want to improve from "stock" N2+ dual to better steppers - the SD2224 is a preferred route?

Will this also allow me to increase the steps/unit and positional accuracy or just the micro stepping "after" the driver input?

I'm less concerned about noise than precision but I am not having skipped steps even now but I would like smoother round surfaces.

I have put on a Bondtech Dual direct and that seems to be an improvement - both the extruder control and the decreased mass of the head assembly.

MDVolle
Posts: 56
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2017 9:00 pm
Location: Fullerton CA

Re: Improvements by using TMC2130 driver.

Postby MDVolle » Sat Jun 02, 2018 6:21 am

Following on to the previous post - what is the "factory" micro stepping value?

The SD 2224 offers 32x or a special 256 mode that I wasn't sure works correctly with our controllers

The SD6128 seems to offer a 128x without a variable step correction but doesn't include the StealthChop2 functions...

Again, I would like to improve the smoothness of rounded surfaces - I'm already generally happy with my results and speed.

Thanks

Mark

Alex M.
Posts: 179
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2018 4:59 pm

Re: Improvements by using TMC2130 driver.

Postby Alex M. » Sat Jun 02, 2018 7:14 am

I don't think the drivers have anything to do with micro stepping even though the new drivers might do better. It's all about better control of the motors and removing the interpolation issues of Stealthchop1 on the TMC2100 drivers.

As for smoothness of rounded surfaces, check you CAD settings. I had issues as well and found my "Maximum mesh deviation" was 0.1mm. I changed it to 0.1um and my curves became MUCH smoother.

zemlin
Posts: 365
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2017 2:02 pm

Re: Improvements by using TMC2130 driver.

Postby zemlin » Sat Jun 02, 2018 11:04 am

Alex M. wrote:As for smoothness of rounded surfaces, check you CAD settings. I had issues as well and found my "Maximum mesh deviation" was 0.1mm. I changed it to 0.1um and my curves became MUCH smoother.
100% ... Any tesselation you're seeing is in the STL file, not a function of stepper drivers or the slicer.

User avatar
jetdillo
Posts: 137
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2017 5:10 am

Re: Improvements by using TMC2130 driver.

Postby jetdillo » Sat Jun 02, 2018 11:50 pm

I'm looking at the Panucatt site right now.
Is the Digipot version of the SD2224 compatible with the N2+ or do I want the manual adjustment version ?

zemlin
Posts: 365
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2017 2:02 pm

Re: Improvements by using TMC2130 driver.

Postby zemlin » Sun Jun 03, 2018 12:00 am

jetdillo wrote:I'm looking at the Panucatt site right now.
Is the Digipot version of the SD2224 compatible with the N2+ or do I want the manual adjustment version ?

Manual.

User avatar
jetdillo
Posts: 137
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2017 5:10 am

Re: Improvements by using TMC2130 driver.

Postby jetdillo » Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:04 pm

zemlin wrote:
jetdillo wrote:I'm looking at the Panucatt site right now.
Is the Digipot version of the SD2224 compatible with the N2+ or do I want the manual adjustment version ?

Manual.


Okay, ordered.
At $26 incl. shipping for two of them, like Jetguy said, how can you not ?
This will probably be next weekend's upgrade.

Iamkar33m
Posts: 83
Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2017 2:53 pm

Re: Improvements by using TMC2130 driver.

Postby Iamkar33m » Mon Jun 04, 2018 12:06 am

I installed my SD2224 drivers the other day. Super simple and straightforward. Pull the old drivers out, set the middle dip switch to on, install the heat sink and drop in the new drivers with the vref adjustment to the right and set the vref to 0.5. Printed a test Benchy right after and had zero issues, the x/y travel is much quieter.

MDVolle
Posts: 56
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2017 9:00 pm
Location: Fullerton CA

Re: Improvements by using TMC2130 driver.

Postby MDVolle » Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:32 pm

Bought two SD2224 drivers
Pealed off Kapton tape over DIP switches and set switches
Plugged in and set voltage to 0.5VDC
Printed -

All safe and well!

REPOSTING JetGuy's photos - they were key to a "smoke free upgrade"

Stepper%20orientation.JPG
SD2224%20switch%20settings-1.jpg
IMG_0138-1.JPG

User avatar
jetdillo
Posts: 137
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2017 5:10 am

Re: Improvements by using TMC2130 driver.

Postby jetdillo » Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:56 am

jetdillo wrote:
zemlin wrote:
jetdillo wrote:I'm looking at the Panucatt site right now.
Is the Digipot version of the SD2224 compatible with the N2+ or do I want the manual adjustment version ?

Manual.


Okay, ordered.
At $26 incl. shipping for two of them, like Jetguy said, how can you not ?
This will probably be next weekend's upgrade.


Got 'em :)
I have things queued up, but will try to get to the install this weekend.


Return to “Hardware”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests