Improvements by using TMC2130 driver.

Topics around mechanical design, controller and electronics. Mods & hacks welcome.
Geckospot Nixie
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2017 6:31 pm

Re: Improvements by using TMC2130 driver.

Postby Geckospot Nixie » Sun May 13, 2018 1:38 pm

Hello All
I have an N2 Dual. With Bondtech dual extruder.
So the question is will I be able to print at a higher speed with these drivers without losing steps?
Right now I can print at 50mm/s on any model without issue of losing steps.
But if I try and print at 60mm/s it is hit or miss some prints are fine and the next one loses steps and get layer shift.

Jetguy
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Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 1:40 am
Location: In a van, down by the river

Re: Improvements by using TMC2130 driver.

Postby Jetguy » Mon May 14, 2018 11:47 am

I don't think anyone can guarantee you can print faster just because you changed a stepper driver.
Yes, these are better drivers, yes, specifically they have better heatsinks (the Panucatt SD2224 come with nice large heatsinks)
XY-Stepper-Driver-1_600x600.jpg
XY-Stepper-Driver-1_600x600.jpg (8.13 KiB) Viewed 138 times
VS
SD2224-2.jpg

Yes, the actual driver has better current control and decay mode in the chip that should help prevent lost steps in situations where Stealthchop1 failed.

But there are other factors always at play. High speeds means the cooling fan is also not dwelling over the layer and so a layer or edge or overhang curling and a nozzle strike- heck, that can be just a result of raw speed and nothing to do with the stepper sub system.

Think about it. This printer design is nearly 3 years old. The TMC2100 driver chip is over 3 years old design. In the electronics world, every 6 months the entire industry improves by leaps and bounds. This is one of the good things and why I liked the Raise 3D mainboard, it had standardized stepper socket so that when a new chip does and will come along, you COULD upgrade. So here we are, at the now opportunity to upgrade, and we have people questioning the upgrade. It would be one thing if they were $20 each, but it's a measly $10. Heck, Raise 3D charges you $20 for single replacement TMC2100 driver in the store. No firmware changes, no soldering, just follow some basic instructions, set the switches, plug the driver in the right way, I say again, plug the driver in the correct way, check, double check, triple check, then power on a use a DC multimeter to measure the Vref and set it.

zemlin
Posts: 294
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2017 2:02 pm

Re: Improvements by using TMC2130 driver.

Postby zemlin » Mon May 14, 2018 2:45 pm

Geckospot Nixie wrote:Hello All
I have an N2 Dual. With Bondtech dual extruder.
So the question is will I be able to print at a higher speed with these drivers without losing steps?
Right now I can print at 50mm/s on any model without issue of losing steps.
But if I try and print at 60mm/s it is hit or miss some prints are fine and the next one loses steps and get layer shift.

I have run ABS at 90mm/s without skips.
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=6870
My machines have the Panucatt SD5984 drivers.

lami3d
Posts: 227
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2016 7:40 am
Location: Marseille - France

Re: Improvements by using TMC2130 driver.

Postby lami3d » Sun May 20, 2018 2:10 pm

Thanks for this topic to all of you
Sorry for John with this mistake :(

I think i'm going to do this even if i never had a skipped step.

I wanted to know the difference between SD5984 that Zemlin installed on his printers (see above) Vs SD2224 ? i try to compare specs but i'm not an expert of these.

And just in case i want to to mod Z axis, is the orientation the same as X and Y axis (with vref located at the opposite of the motor connector) ?

Thanks for your answers

Jetguy
Posts: 2346
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 1:40 am
Location: In a van, down by the river

Re: Improvements by using TMC2130 driver.

Postby Jetguy » Sun May 20, 2018 3:13 pm

Here is the difference between those 2 chips:
The SD5984 is next generation of the pretty much 3D printing baseline standard A4988 stepper driver. This is a long proven technology, simple but known stepper translator, improved current control section and lower RDS on MOSFET section (less heat generation at a given current).
It better than the standard A4988, but not IMO, the best or most advanced driver on the market. While potentially slightly more quiet than an A4988, nowhere on the same level as Trinamic silent drivers in Stealthchop modes.

SD2224- What I consider the current most advanced driver on the market today. it builds on Trinamic's previous experience and field use of the TMC2100 driver currently used for X and Y now in the Raise 3D non-Pro series.
The key features are:
#1 improving even further on the silent stealthchop2 technology over stealthchop1 in the TMC2100. This is what prevents the skipped step scenario while also maintaining the expected silence.
#2 Improved thermal performance, where again, lower RDS on MOSFETS reduce heating the driver at the same current setting.
#3 The ability to switch to a non-stealthchop mode via the 3rd switch in the stepper driver socket. Again, this lets you the user, with nothing more than a switch that already exists on the mainboard now, change mode of these drivers to change from the silent mode to ultimate performance mode if that is your choice. No firmware update in any way required to invoke this feature.
#4 specifically, the Panucatt drivers all include as standard, a larger heatsink than the factory drivers. It's not required, but a huge bonus just for upgrading.

That said, you really only need to upgrade XY IMO. You can upgrade all drivers to whatever you want, that is the wonderful thing about plug in drivers. You could go a combination of SD2224 for XY and SD5984 for Z and the 2 extruders.

lami3d
Posts: 227
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2016 7:40 am
Location: Marseille - France

Re: Improvements by using TMC2130 driver.

Postby lami3d » Sun May 20, 2018 3:17 pm

Thanks a lot for this clear explanation Jetguy !

Jetguy
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Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 1:40 am
Location: In a van, down by the river

Re: Improvements by using TMC2130 driver.

Postby Jetguy » Sun May 20, 2018 3:23 pm

Again, in one way, what you are comparing is kind of a different topic.
When Zemlin used SD5984 drivers, it's more akin to a change of simply not using stealthchop or silent mode.
The SD5984 is a very good driver- no doubt about it. It's based on proven and well known functionality.
Sometimes simple just works.

The Trinamic TMC series of 21XX and now 22XX drivers is somewhat unique to the industry to reduce the noise of the typical 3D printer. And, what was found was, there was a minor tradeoff in that while getting silence, absolute motor strength and thus prevention of skipped steps- there admittedly in TMC2100 was a minor but measurable difference. That coupled with some specifics of the TMC2100 stepper drivers as supplied stock in the printer, there was no switch or easy setting to change modes to a less silent "performance" mode like the newer 22XX series. Again, the 22XX series, was created to further improve on this ground breaking tech, fix the minor issues/limitations in the previous lessons learned on the 21XX series.

If you are out for just raw pure performance, and noise is not the concern, I do not have the data to tell you in actual testing on the Raise 3D printer if a SD5984 or a SD224 in performance mode wins. I will say again, if you aren't skipping now, either driver is better than the current 2100 for performance. To me, the 2224 is the correct choice, but that's my desire to stay silent as a factor in the equation.
Last edited by Jetguy on Sun May 20, 2018 4:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

lami3d
Posts: 227
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2016 7:40 am
Location: Marseille - France

Re: Improvements by using TMC2130 driver.

Postby lami3d » Sun May 20, 2018 3:42 pm

Well understood :) Thanks again !


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