E3D v6 Adaptor

Topics around mechanical design, controller and electronics. Mods & hacks welcome.
trae@greenlee.cc
Posts: 67
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 4:31 pm

Re: E3D v6 Adaptor

Postby trae@greenlee.cc » Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:55 am

Jetguy wrote:
trae@greenlee.cc wrote:Do you have any pictures or did you make any printable mounts specific to the Bard cooling tube

yep, its my first draft so im not entirely satisfied but it is working so haven't had a lot of motivation to change it yet.
Attachments
BLtouch N2 Mount.stl
(66.59 KiB) Downloaded 12 times
IMG_20180614_202040.jpg

Jetguy
Posts: 2643
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 1:40 am
Location: In a van, down by the river

Re: E3D v6 Adaptor

Postby Jetguy » Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:22 am

Thanks!!! My 24V Berd air cooler kits came in today thanks to @Vice Chief. Printing now to install on my N1 and N2 Plus.

trae@greenlee.cc
Posts: 67
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 4:31 pm

Re: E3D v6 Adaptor

Postby trae@greenlee.cc » Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:39 pm

just a heads up.
My max air pump was no longer pumping this morning.
Pulled it apart and found the diaphragmss shaft was melting the motors eccentric thingamabob. (see picture)
So new pump is installed and I added additional high quality PTFE grease to the diaphragm's shaft. (Magnalube G is what I have)
Time will tell if this helps.
Attachments
IMG_20180619_093034.jpg

Jetguy
Posts: 2643
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 1:40 am
Location: In a van, down by the river

Re: E3D v6 Adaptor

Postby Jetguy » Tue Jun 19, 2018 2:12 pm

Thanks for the reminder, I just opened all 4 of mine and lubed the same point using superlube grease. https://www.amazon.com/Super-Lube-92003 ... B0081JE0OO

FWIW, I wish there was a ball bearing alternative, but cost $$$$

I have 4 of these pumps, only had recently installed one for permanent use as of March, but it ran for well over 100 hours straight without failure. I fully admit this is a weak point of the pump design (a plastic molded bushing) as the main crankshaft. I did open mine and lube them before installing, and again, since your failure, I just out of caution lubed the ones installed and printing at this very moment.

Iamkar33m
Posts: 81
Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2017 2:53 pm

Re: E3D v6 Adaptor

Postby Iamkar33m » Wed Jul 04, 2018 4:39 am

trae@greenlee.cc wrote:
Geckospot Nixie wrote:Ok this is outstanding.
This is what I was think of for some time now.
Now a lot of the pain in the neck work is finished.
I'm ordering as soon as I get some info from you experts!
So my questions are:
1. 12V or 24V pump?
2. If 24V how does one remap the gcode?
3. If 12Vwith E-Switch and I place the pump on the upper deck behind the cable chain where is the closest 12V?

Thanks guys

I went with 24v connected to HE2 and recompiled motion board code from this source https://github.com/ABH10/Marlin-for-Raise3D-N-series to remap fan pins. Note the branch I used (bltouch) breaks some functions on the touch interface, i dont know if the others will as well.
I haven't dug into the 12v side maybe others can comment on this but if you using the eswitch you can use the 24v pump and existing 12v fan source to toggle the eswitch.


Can you share how you remapped the GCODE controlled parts cooling (M106) to the HE2 pins? I am extremely new to modifying printer firmware. I have the 24V berd-air ready to go w/ a JST-XH connector, I just need to figure out the firmware part.

I'd also like to maintain the official Raise 3D filament runout sensor and the thermal runaway protection as well. I am starting with the 1.1.6 baseline Raise 3D code: https://github.com/Raise3D/Marlin-Raise3D-N-Series

Best,
Kareem

Jetguy
Posts: 2643
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 1:40 am
Location: In a van, down by the river

Re: E3D v6 Adaptor

Postby Jetguy » Wed Jul 04, 2018 3:34 pm

Easy, all done in pins.h file (actual file is pins_RUMBA.h). That file says what pin goes to what output and the reason there are a boatload of those files is for all the different boards the firmware could run on. Remember, the Raise 3D mainboard is derived from the RUMBA schematic.

I've attached my file so you can just replace the stock one, but you should know where this stuff is and know what is being changed.
"//" is a comment in the code so the text after that is ignored.

Code: Select all

// Heaters / Fans
//
#define HEATER_0_PIN        2
#define HEATER_1_PIN        3
#define HEATER_2_PIN        -1  //6 disabled because HE2 used for Berd Cooler
#define HEATER_3_PIN        8
#define HEATER_BED_PIN      9

#define FAN_PIN               6     //7 //6 moves to HE2
#define FAN1_PIN            -1    //8
Attachments
pins_RUMBA.h
(4.99 KiB) Downloaded 4 times

Iamkar33m
Posts: 81
Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2017 2:53 pm

Re: E3D v6 Adaptor

Postby Iamkar33m » Wed Jul 04, 2018 6:03 pm

Thanks JetGuy, sounds simple enough! I downloaded your pins_RUMBA.h file and ran a compare against the one I pulled from Raise 3D's master on github. It's quite a bit different. Now I'm paranoid that maybe I'm pulling the firmware source from the wrong place. I've attached my version of the pins_RUMBA.h file here for you to look at. Your version has more comments and seemingly Raise specific code, and mine doesn't have that.

Best,
Kareem
Attachments
pins_RUMBA.h
(3.66 KiB) Downloaded 5 times

Jetguy
Posts: 2643
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 1:40 am
Location: In a van, down by the river

Re: E3D v6 Adaptor

Postby Jetguy » Thu Jul 05, 2018 1:45 am

Here is your version edited the same way
Attachments
pins_RUMBA.h
(3.83 KiB) Downloaded 3 times

Iamkar33m
Posts: 81
Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2017 2:53 pm

Re: E3D v6 Adaptor

Postby Iamkar33m » Thu Jul 05, 2018 4:23 am

I've compiled the code and tested it out, works great! Thanks again.

Best,
Kareem

firesped
Posts: 849
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2016 9:23 pm
Location: Tucson, AZ

Re: E3D v6 Adaptor

Postby firesped » Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:36 am

has anyone come up with a front mounted fan for cold end cooling that includes the berd air max mounts?
RL name: Michael Nolen
printers:
raise3D N2 kickstarter Early Bird
Trinus Deluxe (running smoothieware on Azteeg X5 GT board)
Monoprice Maker Select v2

Iamkar33m
Posts: 81
Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2017 2:53 pm

Re: E3D v6 Adaptor

Postby Iamkar33m » Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:12 pm

Here’s my current setup.

9C5F6A95-021E-4D03-9D74-4F02057DC014.jpeg

detroitus
Posts: 70
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2018 5:40 pm

Re: E3D v6 Adaptor

Postby detroitus » Thu Aug 16, 2018 1:56 pm

Running into a bit of an issue. I just installed an E3D-V6 hot end on my N2 and am now having trouble maintaining proper nozzle temperature. My install consists of the following:
- cold end adapter
- E3D titanium heat break
- Capricorn PTFE filament guide tube
- E3D copper heater block
- E3D Type 24V 30W heater cartridge
- E3D Type K thermocouple cartridge
- E3D 0.4mm copper nozzle
- E3D silicone sock
- My machine also has the Bondtech single extruder

My first prints since completing the install have been 20mm calibration cubes (with eSun ABS+) and they are coming out as if the heater block is WAY too hot. I've done PID autotuning, but that does not seem to help, and in fact makes the problem worse. I did a factory reset to restore original PID settings and it improved, but is still not great. The image below is of the best result with calibration cube, this done at factory PID settings and temperature set at 200C (recommended temp range is 220 - 260 for this filament). I'm not doing layer cooling because it's ABS. The distortion on the rear portion of the cube is where the plastic is under the heater block during the entire build due to the orientation of the hot end.

20180815_161000_resized.jpg


I tried printing a larger object and it seemed to turn out ok, I assume due to the hot end not hovering over the same area during the entire build. I'm convinced that the temperature at the hot end is just much higher than it is supposed to be, but I'm not sure how to fix that. Is it possible that I just did the PID autotune incorrectly or something?

trae@greenlee.cc
Posts: 67
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 4:31 pm

Re: E3D v6 Adaptor

Postby trae@greenlee.cc » Thu Aug 16, 2018 2:34 pm

What does way to hot look like?
When you run PID autotune what you're trying to do is smooth out the temperature swings and maintain the nozzle at the target temp as close as possible.
so redo the PID autotune.
As for your concern about being too hot, that's a hard thing to tell without physically measuring the heating block temp.
But for all practical purposes we don't generally care what the temp readout says we just want to extured at the optimal temp for the material and conditions we are printing in.
Run a temp ladder and see what temp gives the best result. let me know if you unaware of this procedure.
Oh, just had a thought and assuming you dont have a way to measure the heater temps externally, With the heater off and cooled down to room temp note the temp Then temporarily reconnect the old thermocoupler and see what it says at room temp. They should be within a few degrees of each other, if they are wildly different eg. ten degrees, then there may be an issue with the coupler.
Did this help?

Jetguy
Posts: 2643
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 1:40 am
Location: In a van, down by the river

Re: E3D v6 Adaptor

Postby Jetguy » Thu Aug 16, 2018 3:23 pm

detroitus wrote:Running into a bit of an issue. I just installed an E3D-V6 hot end on my N2 and am now having trouble maintaining proper nozzle temperature. My install consists of the following:
- cold end adapter
- E3D titanium heat break
- Capricorn PTFE filament guide tube
- E3D copper heater block
- E3D Type 24V 30W heater cartridge
- E3D Type K thermocouple cartridge
- E3D 0.4mm copper nozzle
- E3D silicone sock
I'm convinced that the temperature at the hot end is just much higher than it is supposed to be, but I'm not sure how to fix that. Is it possible that I just did the PID autotune incorrectly or something?


When you used the E3D thermocouple, did you use the whole wire length or shorten it? You can shorten it and I highly recommend that. In addition, I also recommend using heatshrink over even the individual wires at the screw terminal junction because the fiberglass woven insulation can and will unravel and could lead to a short.

Second part is, did you also install a Raise 3D N series thermal protection board or do the safety mod?

The reason I ask is:
#1 The thermocouple system is extremely accurate from even 2 totally different thermocouples provided they are proper K-type. In fact, that's the entire point of using such an off the shelf chip like the AD597 thermocouple amplifier, it is self calibrating (part of it's power on sequence) and uses it's own temperature measurement to know the cold end (screw terminal junction). Again, it doesn't matter if the wire is 2 inches or 10 feet, as long as it's K-type thermocouple wire, with no junctions or connectors other than the screw terminals, and the screw terminals are near the AD597 IC (part of the extruder breakout board design), then as a system, this should net a plus or minus no more than 4C between any 2 printers. That's right from the datasheet. http://www.analog.com/media/en/technica ... 96_597.pdf
#2 the problem is- if the ribbon cable breaks or is intermittent connection and there is no safety board installed in the printer between the mainboard and the ribbon cable, then that printer has no idea if and when it is seeing valid temperature updates from the thermocouple amplifier. Given you had to mess with the wiring to install the hotend and other modifications, it's highly likely to have messed with the ribbon cable in the process. That can either lead to it coming unplugged because it's not a locking connector or breaking a wire from flexing and bending. This absolutely can and will cause thermal runaway and errant temperature if no safety modification is installed.

detroitus
Posts: 70
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2018 5:40 pm

Re: E3D v6 Adaptor

Postby detroitus » Thu Aug 16, 2018 3:32 pm

trae@greenlee.cc wrote:What does way to hot look like?

Run a temp ladder and see what temp gives the best result. let me know if you unaware of this procedure.
Oh, just had a thought and assuming you dont have a way to measure the heater temps externally, With the heater off and cooled down to room temp note the temp Then temporarily reconnect the old thermocoupler and see what it says at room temp. They should be within a few degrees of each other, if they are wildly different eg. ten degrees, then there may be an issue with the coupler.
Did this help?


Way too hot looks like what was in the image I posted, basically. That warping was primarily due to the proximity of the insulated heater block being directly above the part. The front end was significantly better because that was the end that was not covered by the hot end as the nozzle moved to the rear of the part.

I'm not familiar with the temp ladder procedure, but I'm sure that's nothing a Google search won't cure. I'll give it a shot.

Thanks for the response!

detroitus
Posts: 70
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2018 5:40 pm

Re: E3D v6 Adaptor

Postby detroitus » Thu Aug 16, 2018 3:37 pm

Jetguy wrote:
When you used the E3D thermocouple, did you use the whole wire length or shorten it? You can shorten it and I highly recommend that. In addition, I also recommend using heatshrink over even the individual wires at the screw terminal junction because the fiberglass woven insulation can and will unravel and could lead to a short.

Second part is, did you also install a Raise 3D N series thermal protection board or do the safety mod?

The reason I ask is:
#1 The thermocouple system is extremely accurate from even 2 totally different thermocouples provided they are proper K-type. In fact, that's the entire point of using such an off the shelf chip like the AD597 thermocouple amplifier, it is self calibrating (part of it's power on sequence) and uses it's own temperature measurement to know the cold end (screw terminal junction). Again, it doesn't matter if the wire is 2 inches or 10 feet, as long as it's K-type thermocouple wire, with no junctions or connectors other than the screw terminals, and the screw terminals are near the AD597 IC (part of the extruder breakout board design), then as a system, this should net a plus or minus no more than 4C between any 2 printers. That's right from the datasheet. http://www.analog.com/media/en/technica ... 96_597.pdf
#2 the problem is- if the ribbon cable breaks or is intermittent connection and there is no safety board installed in the printer between the mainboard and the ribbon cable, then that printer has no idea if and when it is seeing valid temperature updates from the thermocouple amplifier. Given you had to mess with the wiring to install the hotend and other modifications, it's highly likely to have messed with the ribbon cable in the process. That can either lead to it coming unplugged because it's not a locking connector or breaking a wire from flexing and bending. This absolutely can and will cause thermal runaway and errant temperature if no safety modification is installed.


I do have the thermal protection board installed. I'm actually fairly confident that the ribbon cable is fine as well, since I just replaced and tested it prior to changing out this hot end.

Thanks for the info on the thermocouples. I did shorten the wires when I installed it, but I did not heat shrink the ends. I'll go back and do that on the chance that the shielding material is causing an issue with the temp sensing.

Thanks for the help!

trae@greenlee.cc
Posts: 67
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 4:31 pm

Re: E3D v6 Adaptor

Postby trae@greenlee.cc » Thu Aug 16, 2018 3:57 pm

Ah, so based on the photo I would do two things to improve that particular part.
Add a brim and, because of its size, print two or more at the same time this way they have time to cool between layers.

detroitus
Posts: 70
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2018 5:40 pm

Re: E3D v6 Adaptor

Postby detroitus » Thu Aug 16, 2018 4:11 pm

trae@greenlee.cc wrote:Ah, so based on the photo I would do two things to improve that particular part.
Add a brim and, because of its size, print two or more at the same time this way they have time to cool between layers.


That makes sense, but my concern was based mainly on the fact that this issue never occurred with the stock R3D hot end, and only appeared when I changed over to the E3D assembly. Before, I could print a 20mm test cube without any trouble. Now, with the new hot end, I seemingly can't print single small objects out of ABS anymore. That tells me that something is wrong, either with my setup or my understanding, or both.

trae@greenlee.cc
Posts: 67
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 4:31 pm

Re: E3D v6 Adaptor

Postby trae@greenlee.cc » Thu Aug 16, 2018 4:18 pm

Did you change the fan arrangement between R3D and E3D?

detroitus
Posts: 70
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2018 5:40 pm

Re: E3D v6 Adaptor

Postby detroitus » Thu Aug 16, 2018 4:34 pm

I did. I designed a new fan duct for your adapter that mounts to a 40mm fan. I put the .stl file here if you are interested.

I'm also setting up the Berd Air system, but haven't tested it yet, as I haven't run any filament that requires layer cooling yet.
Attachments
FAN SHROUD B_.STL
(3.55 MiB) Downloaded 5 times


Return to “Hardware”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 3 guests