N2 Plus underextrusion

Topics around mechanical design, controller and electronics. Mods & hacks welcome.
pearson222
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:14 pm

N2 Plus underextrusion

Postby pearson222 » Wed Oct 04, 2017 1:47 pm

My N2 Plus suddenly began underextruding and I cant seen to find a fix. I am running the Bondtech dual direct drive extruders. I unloaded filament and verified that it isnt clogged and the gears are clean. It loads filament without issue. It had been working without any problems for a week and nothing since has been changed.

Printing eSun PETG @ 245 with the L extruder

Jetguy
Posts: 1782
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 1:40 am

Re: N2 Plus underextrusion

Postby Jetguy » Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:15 pm

So things that would cause it to under extrude:
#1 Mechanical things
Extruder motor skipping steps due to force required is greater than motor can supply
Extruder slipping and grinding filament- you said no evidence of this
Drive gear setscrew loose on motor shaft- did you check?

#2 Software things:
Did you update the LCD panel firmware (raisepack) on the printer recently? New versions allows steps per mm change
Did you update Ideamaker and lose the steps per mm setting that the profile would slip into the print files? Note, if you now update the LCD firmware and use steps per mm change in the LCD firmware, then steps per mm in the profile is no longer required- however, a mistake here may override firmware steps per mm.
Did you load custom firmware or some other change incompatible with other updates thus affecting steps per mm

What you have not said is if it wasn't grinding and slipping- then skipping steps is the next logical answer assuming the print files and firmware are enforcing correct steps per mm. If it's not skipping steps, not grinding or slipping- then more likely to be a steps per mm issue somewhere in the software and firmware chain.

pearson222
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:14 pm

Re: N2 Plus underextrusion

Postby pearson222 » Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:39 pm

I am running:
Version 0.9.2.1026
Firmware 1.1.1

I was also convinced it is a disconnect in the E step value. I recently updated the touch panel but cannot find where the version number is stored. I had edited the gcode start line to include M92 E140 and also changed the E steps in the touch panel. I just quickly tested by removing the M92 E140 from the start script and it it back to normal extrusion!!

Can you please answer/clarify a few things for me please?

1.) Where can I find what version of firmware the touch screen is running?

2.) Does this mean I can just use the default start scripts for both Ideamaker and S3D?

3.) Upon starting a print the nozzle purges and then skips the step where it would knock the purged material from the nozzle. How to I restore that action?

Jetguy
Posts: 1782
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 1:40 am

Re: N2 Plus underextrusion

Postby Jetguy » Wed Oct 04, 2017 3:10 pm

You can see the 2 firmware versions by accessing the LCD menu
You touch the "gear" in the upper right corner of the LCD menu

touch 1.jpg

Then you will see the 2 different firmware versions for the LCD itself and the Motion controller Marlin versions.
(As a note, I'm running my own custom Marlin firmware version 1.1.7J- for Jetguy since this is a custom Core XY variant)
touch 2.jpg


2.) Does this mean I can just use the default start scripts for both Ideamaker and S3D?

Yes, provided you are running the latest LCD firmware update (https://s3.amazonaws.com/ideamaker/touc ... .raisepack)
AND
you set the required steps per mm in the LCD under "hardware"

3.) Upon starting a print the nozzle purges and then skips the step where it would knock the purged material from the nozzle. How to I restore that action?

That's all your ideamaker starting gcode sequence. It does whatever you told it. Copying an older print file, identifying the starting gcode from a previous print file that"did what you wanted" and putting that now in your slicing profile makes it produce the exact same gcode and thus the exact same actions from the printer.

Jetguy
Posts: 1782
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 1:40 am

Re: N2 Plus underextrusion

Postby Jetguy » Wed Oct 04, 2017 3:11 pm

Probably should read the update instructions details
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1652#p13896

Jetguy
Posts: 1782
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 1:40 am

Re: N2 Plus underextrusion

Postby Jetguy » Wed Oct 04, 2017 4:41 pm

FWIW, I just copied the start code from my own N2 Plus profile.

G21
G90
M82
M107
G28 X0 Y0
G28 Z0
G1 Z15.0 F{travel_speed}
G92 E0
G1 F140 E29
G1 X20 Y0 F140 E30
G92 E0
G1 F{travel_speed}
M117 Printing...

N2Plus starting and ending gcode.jpg

pearson222
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:14 pm

Re: N2 Plus underextrusion

Postby pearson222 » Thu Oct 05, 2017 1:22 pm

Thanks for the help guys - much appreciated.

Jetguy wrote:FWIW, I just copied the start code from my own N2 Plus profile.
N2Plus starting and ending gcode.jpg


I looked at your start ggode and it is the same as mine. Its weird that my starting sequence was different a week ago. Last week it would home the z axis and stay at first layer height while priming, then wait a few seconds and move x + y to start the print - thus wiping the primed plastic off the nozzle. Anybody know how I can accomplish this in my start script?

Jetguy
Posts: 1782
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 1:40 am

Re: N2 Plus underextrusion

Postby Jetguy » Thu Oct 05, 2017 3:11 pm

I think it's more a perception issue than anything.
The script has not changed in a while.

So, what has changed? Well, for whatever reason that your gcode system chain stopped updating the steps per mm at the start of the print likely means that the purge or priming of the nozzle extrusion:
G1 F140 E29 First squirt 29mm worth of incoming filament
G1 X20 Y0 F140 E30 squirt an additional 1mm while moving the nozzle right 20mm

Was not faithfully executed. By that I mean if steps per mm were off (stock 94 VS Bondtech mini style 140) you extruded less than the gcode stated. That may not be a long enough thread hanging down from the nozzle and thus when the moving action to break that off the nozzle happens, instead of breaking, this shorter thread fails to break, travels with the nozzle and leaves a little booger.

Again, I HIGHLY doubt the actual XYZ code was ever any different. Your perceived actions of how that worked- it always was 15mm (my fault for not reading the code) above the bed when that happened, but because of length, it broke off as expected. When you had a steps per mm mismatch, then you got double fault of a bad start and under extrusion printing.

That said, if you remove this line
G1 Z15.0 F{travel_speed}
Then, it no longer lowers the bed during this purge and will then directly run the nozzle across the edge of the bed
That said, the risk is high for a nozzle crash into the edge. Probably give yourself at least 0.5mm or more
So change to
G1 Z0.5 F{travel_speed}
Last edited by Jetguy on Thu Oct 05, 2017 3:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

pearson222
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:14 pm

Re: N2 Plus underextrusion

Postby pearson222 » Thu Oct 05, 2017 3:42 pm

I thank you for explaining that. I really appreciate it. I will try your changes to my start script on my next print and let you know. Again thank you for the help.


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