Hot Glue Dripping for Connectors (silicone)

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mbb.mech
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Hot Glue Dripping for Connectors (silicone)

Postby mbb.mech » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:57 am

Hello

I am looking to see if there are others with Raise3D N2 Plus Dual printers that have hot glue (silicone) dripping from electrical connectors on the Extruding steppers and the heat bed?
Our printer has been running for a few days now and this just started happening this morning. I will be cleaning up the connections so it won't happen again. I am suspecting that the type of hot glue was changed at the manufacturer with out considering the operating temperature of the machine.

Anyone out there seen this before?

Cheers
Michael

Raise3D N2 Plus Dual, 2 x Flash Forge Dreamers
Attachments
Heat Bed Connection.png
Dripping Glue from Stepper Motor connections.png
Dripped Glue.png

Jetguy
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Re: Hot Glue Dripping for Connectors (silicone)

Postby Jetguy » Tue Jun 20, 2017 6:44 am

Rather than worrying about the glue, you better be turning down the current on those extruder steppers.

Jetguy
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Re: Hot Glue Dripping for Connectors (silicone)

Postby Jetguy » Tue Jun 20, 2017 6:51 am

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1460&hilit=black+motor

Key points:
As such, I feel a modified recommendation should be:
If you have the BOHONG stepper motor model 42HBF09AB for your extruders, the vref I came to experimentally:
For stock aluminum body extruder mount-0.7V Vref, a reduction of 0.2V from the old PDF instructions.
For a Bontech or any other plastic body feeder upgrade (the E3D Titan could be an example), then reduce further to 0.5V Vref.

In addition, I did not grab the other motor exact model numbers for XYZ, but they too were BOHONG supplied motors and I found they were running very hot to the point you could not touch them. I reduced the Vref to 0.85V on the TMC2100 drivers for X and Y (down also from 0.9V) and I personally installed a TMC2100 on my Z axis, and since the motor is I think the same model as XY, I reduce Z also to 0.85V - but keep in mind, I changed from the stock A4988.

Just saying, check your motors, know what model you have, and we should develop some official guidance that is specific. Stepper motors can run quite hot. That is not my main concern. My real concern is that the extruder motor specifically cannot be allowed to heat up the filament path when printing PLA or else you will get jams as the PLA approached glass transition temp and softens in the feed path. My other concern is damage to the plastic upper body of the printer on the N2/N2 plus from excessive XY motor heat if the printer was operating enclosed with the lid on for ABS or other higher chamber temp materials.
Attachments
Adjust voltage of A4988.docx
(1.98 MiB) Downloaded 56 times

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Michael.P@Raise3D
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Re: Hot Glue Dripping for Connectors (silicone)

Postby Michael.P@Raise3D » Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:42 pm

Jetguy,

Thank you for your input on this matter but I will have to insist that mbb.mech not adjust his stepper drivers. We would like to find the root cause, not apply patchwork fixes to the issue.

mbb.mech,

Please submit a ticket to this site and provide the purchase date on the machine and serial number. http://help.raise3d.com/support/home
Michael Petitclerc, Technician
Tel: +888 963 9028
Web: http://www.raise3d.com

Jetguy
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Re: Hot Glue Dripping for Connectors (silicone)

Postby Jetguy » Tue Jun 20, 2017 5:39 pm

We are on the same team, trying to help the user. I think you better get up to speed here on this problem. What is especially frustrating is that I've done the troubleshooting work for you, posted guidance, gave Raise 3D tech support every opportunity for months to revise the guidance and make it official, only to have a support tech basically give me a "cease and desist" and tell the customer to open a ticket.

Jetguy
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Re: Hot Glue Dripping for Connectors (silicone)

Postby Jetguy » Tue Jun 20, 2017 6:15 pm

We know what the root cause, is. The motor supplier brand and model was changed from the kickstarter units, and the stepper current settings and values were never changed. The newer motors have a different winding and electrical specification and regardless of the model number and datasheet documentation, the windings are higher resistance than the previous motors and heat up more at the same identical current setting from the stepper driver.

Again, the motor supplier changed, motors that were supposed to match the original motors were sourced, they don't actually match, and thus the same "official" current setting that works for Kickstarter and slightly later units without overheating the motors, does not work for current shipping units with the new motor supplier. Here is a classic situation in which a supplier was changed with a part that is supposed to be an exact drop in match, and unfortunately, it's not the same, and it's slipped through to customers. Simply take the guidance, make it official, help the customer.

Jetguy
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Re: Hot Glue Dripping for Connectors (silicone)

Postby Jetguy » Sat Jun 24, 2017 6:25 pm

So it's Saturday, At least one other user in the forum with the newer style motors has a claim of hot motors and jams.
Users have been told to not follow the information and adjustments I have provided, and no alternative guidance or "fix" has been presented by Raise 3D or tech support.

What's the deal folks???

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Hot Glue Dripping for Connectors (silicone)

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:51 am

We have already reported the problem to R&D department. They are considering different plans for this. We will most likely add something can provide heat insulation between motor and extruder.

Jetguy
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Re: Hot Glue Dripping for Connectors (silicone)

Postby Jetguy » Mon Jun 26, 2017 2:15 pm

Isolating the motor is only going to make the motor hotter (if ambient and current setting remains the same) since we know the aluminum feeder assembly is sinking some heat away now.

The problem is the motor got hot enough to melt the glue. How is the answer to isolate the motor from the ONE THING sinking the heat away now, to solve the glue literally melting off the connector?

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Hot Glue Dripping for Connectors (silicone)

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Tue Jun 27, 2017 2:43 am

Which melt in the pictures mbb.mech shared should be hot glue. We have already changed it to be silicone glue which can stand much higher temperature than hot glue. Based on our tests in factory, haven't seen it will melt during printing.

EldRick
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Re: Hot Glue Dripping for Connectors (silicone)

Postby EldRick » Tue Jun 27, 2017 5:57 am

My brand-new N2 dripped on a print last night. The glue on the printhead connectors and the heated bed is much too low temperature for the job, and it does not come off the buildtak after it drips there. Very annoying.
Last edited by EldRick on Fri Jun 30, 2017 6:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Hot Glue Dripping for Connectors (silicone)

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Tue Jun 27, 2017 7:07 am

Would you like to share the melting pictures, the label on your extruder motors and the serial number of your machine and when did you buy the machine from onto our ticket system? So that we can check whether it is silicone batch. If so, we need to consider change this.


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