Project Bondtech Extruder

Topics around mechanical design, controller and electronics. Mods & hacks welcome.
firesped
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Re: Project Bondtech Extruder

Postby firesped » Tue Dec 27, 2016 12:10 pm

Here is some pictures of my fan mod. I also have a heat sink on the back of the motor.

IMG_0729.JPG


In the following picture, you can see I lined from front of the motor with kapton tape to reduce heat transfer forward.

IMG_0730.JPG


IMG_0731.JPG


IMG_0732.JPG
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flexrc
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Re: Project Bondtech Extruder

Postby flexrc » Wed Dec 28, 2016 12:21 am

Looks awesome. How did you mount heatsink?

firesped
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Re: Project Bondtech Extruder

Postby firesped » Wed Dec 28, 2016 6:13 am

It's taped on with kapton tape
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lami3d
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Re: Project Bondtech Extruder

Postby lami3d » Fri Dec 30, 2016 8:53 pm

Hi,

with 0.6v, i was also too hot... even if the filament didn't melt yet (because my last tests were with PC, ASA and HD Glass), i think it would have happened with PLA

So, i apply your mod, firesped, and it works great. After two benchies with PC and HD Glass, the motor was not hot at all (i could handle it without problem). Great thanks once again !!

I have modified one part to get the assembly slightly in constraint (no play with the fan) and i drill a old DDR heat sink like this to blow straight on the shaft.

20161229_160208[1].jpg


Maybe i would have to modify the fan support to get the fan centered / motor but it works great like that and i didn't want to remove everything now.

I put thermal paste betwen the motor and the heat sink and i drill two 2.5mm holes in the heat sink to be able to maintain the heat sink through the fan with two screws and be able to hold it against the motor back.
I put 2 layers of ceramic paper in kapton tape and add it between the motor and the extruder (i put the gear at 3mm of the end of the shaft instead of 4mm as usual) and tighten to get the gear right in place (i cut the kapton you see after i had taken the picture...)

20161230_161701[1].jpg


view from the top

20161230_165417[1].jpg



HD glass (left) and ePC (right) benchies with a motor temperature around 40°45°C at the end (after about 1h20min + 1h40min for PC) i would say but i didn't really measure temperature... i know that i usualy can't touch the motor during a long time after a benchy so i really think the issue is solved.

20161230_211907[1].jpg

firesped
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Re: Project Bondtech Extruder

Postby firesped » Fri Dec 30, 2016 9:51 pm

cool, I've been working on some new firmware and I am printing off something. I should try printing off a benchy.
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firesped
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Re: Project Bondtech Extruder

Postby firesped » Fri Dec 30, 2016 10:01 pm

IMG_0734.JPG


printing with the new firmware based on Marlin 1.1.0 RC8BugFix
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firesped
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Re: Project Bondtech Extruder

Postby firesped » Fri Dec 30, 2016 11:35 pm

printing off a benchy. I was looking at my settings and I realized I forgot to set the hotbed on the new printer configuration. so I went and checked on it, It's printing fine without the hotbed. I turned the hot bed on though.
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firesped
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Re: Project Bondtech Extruder

Postby firesped » Sun Jan 01, 2017 2:30 pm

I saw something and now I am debating on it. modififying the QR Universal to use a Pneumatic 4mm Tube Push In M5 Fitting.

This could also be applied to the Bondtech housing as well. allowing for better tube connectors. On the hybrid model, for the bowden side, it would probably require running a short PTFE tube between the fitting and the feeding tube for the right hotend.
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flexrc
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Re: Project Bondtech Extruder

Postby flexrc » Sun Jan 01, 2017 7:26 pm

I can't seems to be able to get good results with RIGHT extruder? Is it because I'm using stock firmware (M92 E140)?

@firespread - should I use some of your firmware?

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Re: Project Bondtech Extruder

Postby firesped » Mon Jan 02, 2017 4:35 pm

Hopefully there is going to be new official firmware coming soon. Not based on my code but based on the a version of the marlin RC. there are changes in the firmware that I really like, for instance, on a XY home if the nozzle is too close to the bed, it will move the bed to a safe distance first. I'm about to go play with a change on my Z stepper.
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brolly759
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Re: Project Bondtech Extruder

Postby brolly759 » Tue Jan 03, 2017 10:38 pm

How do I get rid of all this z scaring. It seems to over extrude on layer changes or create a gap. I tried different heats, randomized layer starting positions, changed speeds, changed firmware. Kinda stuck.

Any help would be great. Thanks!
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20170103_173025.jpg

flexrc
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Re: Project Bondtech Extruder

Postby flexrc » Thu Jan 05, 2017 5:58 am

brolly759 wrote:How do I get rid of all this z scaring. It seems to over extrude on layer changes or create a gap. I tried different heats, randomized layer starting positions, changed speeds, changed firmware. Kinda stuck.

Any help would be great. Thanks!


I have exactly the same issue with prints made with right bowden extruder. It does not seem that firmware and offered gcode doing a good enough job. I wish that I didn't cut wires on my right extruder to be able to easier to revert to the original setup :)
So for now I'm just printing stuff which does not need to look good.

I'm not sure yet if left extruder will behave the same for hard filaments, because I've only used it for semiflex and result looked good

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Bondtech
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Re: Project Bondtech Extruder

Postby Bondtech » Sat Jan 07, 2017 12:02 pm

Using Bondtech Mini in a bowden setup for the right extruder.
Hi in order to give some more clearification on this subject we have made some tests using the Bondtech Mini as Bowden extruder for the right nozzle. In the following test we used Raise3D white PLA and used the following settings in Simplify3D

- Right Extruder using Bondtech Mini Bowden extruder
- Raise 3D White PLA
- Hotend temp: 210C
- Bed temp: 50C
- Bead coating: White PVA Glue/diluted with water
- Retraction: 4.0 mm
- Coasting: 0.5 mm
- Layerheight: 0.20 mm
- Perimeters: 2
- Infill: 15%

The printed part is a simple 20x20x10 box and below is the print just coming from the printer, (sorry for the red streaks, we were printing red color before this test)
The first image shows the complete part and the second is zoomed up on the corner where the layer starts/stops.
http://imgur.com/kIWb1EU

http://imgur.com/jramgpa


This is our Simplify3D factory file used in the test, it uses the M92 E140 command in the starting scrip to set the E-steps value.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7A1MEUY39HCUjJGX09paVM1NnM
Last edited by Bondtech on Sun Jan 08, 2017 4:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

flexrc
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Re: Project Bondtech Extruder

Postby flexrc » Sun Jan 08, 2017 6:05 am

Thanks a lot to Bondtech for providing example of the factory file, I've printed it and got very good result for the box, then I even increased speed and it was still a very good result. Then I've printed several objects with these settings and result was not bad either, it had one z scar, probably need to play with retraction a bit more.

I've tried to understand why would it print way better than my settings as they look almost exactly the same and then I've noticed that Bondtech used much lower speed for retraction 2400mm/min when in my profile I had 6000mm/min, which usually worked well in my previous applications. Also he used "Choose start point close to specific location" X: 300, Y: 0, not sure if it matters.

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JohnSays
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Re: Project Bondtech Extruder

Postby JohnSays » Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:10 pm

Bondtech wrote:Using Bondtech Mini in a bowden setup for the right extruder.
Hi in order to give some more clearification on this subject we have made some tests using the Bondtech Mini as Bowden extruder for the right nozzle. In the following test we used Raise3D white PLA and used the following settings in Simplify3D[/url]


I have been trying to get a good print with the right extruder using the mini and eSun ABS+. I cannot seem to get rid of the blobs that appear on the inside and outside of the print at the start of each line printed. By that, I mean that as the extruder starts to move or when it moves over to print another line as it print concentric circles, it spits/oozes out a little extra filament. I have played with the "Extra Restart Distance" by making it a negative value. If I make it as large as -1.5 mm then the blob does disappear, but the following extrusion is too thin. Using the same temperature and speed on the left extruder gets a relatively perfect print, but note that retraction and coasting settings are quite different.

I am using a 0.6 mm nozzle.

Any suggestions?
- John
2 Raise3D N2 Duals, V2 nozzles, Bondtech BMGs, and adjustable table

flexrc
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Re: Project Bondtech Extruder

Postby flexrc » Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:52 am

JohnSays wrote:
Bondtech wrote:I have been trying to get a good print with the right extruder using the mini and eSun ABS+. I cannot seem to get rid of the blobs that appear on the inside and outside of the print at the start of each line printed.


Did you try to adjust retraction speed? In my case this is what help.
Also not sure if it actually helps but I've started to use Start from position.

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JohnSays
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Re: Project Bondtech Extruder

Postby JohnSays » Wed Jan 18, 2017 1:34 am

Thanks flexrc. I have played extensively with the retraction and restart and coast. I continue to do so. I have relegated the right extruder to printing non-aesthetic pieces. I have put a 0.8 nozzle there and bumped the speed up to as high as it will go and still give me a workable print. I found 80 mm/sec too high and have now backed if off to 60 mm/sec. Blobs are mostly gone and layer adhesion is great. I can print these particular object so much faster than I could with a 0.4 mm nozzle. Like maybe 6 times as fast just because I do not care about how they look; only how they function.
- John
2 Raise3D N2 Duals, V2 nozzles, Bondtech BMGs, and adjustable table

lami3d
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Re: Project Bondtech Extruder

Postby lami3d » Wed Jan 18, 2017 4:32 pm

i think that is the right kind of thing to do with the right bowden extruder johnsays !
a restricted application but a working application... "on peut pas avoir le beurre et l'argent du beurre"
if i use this extruder one day, i will do the same.
you manage to print only with the right extruder (i was reading a topic about that and i thought it was not good) ?

as i have read a lot of topics where your experience was helpfull (like others on this site), i was thinking about your problems with ninjaflex, have you passed them or have you experienced other problems ?
i'm also wondering what ninjaflex did you use ? i have semiflex that i'm going to use soon but i don't know what is the reel ninjaflex (or my resseler haven't got it) , is it "cheetah" that i found also ?

i also saw that thruster print ninjaflex with bondtech, same question was it "ninjaflex" or "ninjaflex semiflex" ? ...

Tx

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Trhuster
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Re: Project Bondtech Extruder

Postby Trhuster » Wed Jan 18, 2017 4:54 pm

lami3d wrote:i think that is the right kind of thing to do with the right bowden extruder johnsays !
i also saw that thruster print ninjaflex with bondtech, same question was it "ninjaflex" or "ninjaflex semiflex" ? ...

Tx


I have tested with both Ninjaflex and Semiflex.

lami3d
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Re: Project Bondtech Extruder

Postby lami3d » Wed Jan 18, 2017 4:58 pm

Tx thruster
so, it's the same brand but not the same material...
ninjaflex is simply callled ninjaflex ? and "cheetah" a ninjaflex version more easy to print with ?

are there some tips to print with ? i've only tried ngenflex in flexible materials...
Last edited by lami3d on Wed Jan 18, 2017 5:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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