Project Bondtech Extruder

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Trhuster
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Project Bondtech Extruder

Postby Trhuster » Mon Apr 25, 2016 4:25 pm

Hi everyone.

In this thread i want to share my tests and findings about swapping out orginal extruder to a Bondtech extruder. I have for a long time wanted a Bondtech extruder on my printers but this will be my first one and it will be mounted on my Raise3D N1. I also designed a new cover for the break out board. Can be downloaded here: https://pinshape.com/items/21341-3d-pri ... board-case

So i got a bag off parts and the 3d-files from Bondtech and permisson to mod them so it would fit my N1 with a single extruder. So i started to modify the files and did some test printes and after a couple off days i had a fully working Bondtech extruder fitted to my N1.

And why a Bondtech extruder you think? Now i just gonna write what i think and from what i have read about Bondtech extruders, others may or may not agree.

1: Dual drive gears.
2: Spring tension system.
3: Small diameter drive gears for more torque.
4: Compared to original design abit less weight for printhead to move around with.
5: High quality parts like hardened drive gears and needle bearings.
6: Modding is fun! :)

I have already done a few prints and result so far is extremley positive. No slipping no stepper motor clicking, it pulls so hard when i loading filament that i can't make the stepper to click or slip! This is with Z-ABS.

So far i have only printed with Z-ABS but i plan to test every filament that i have and also some stress test to really push the limit off what this extruder and my N1 can do. Also i have a V2 hotend mounted so this is a good test for it too.

The filaments i have home and plan to test is:

1: Z-ABS Test passed
2: Z-Ultrat Test passed
3: Z-Hips Test passed
4: Colorfabb PLA Test passed
5: Colorfabb Bronzefill Test passed
6: Eumakers PLA Test passed
7: Wanhao PLA Test passed
8: Raise3D PLA Test passed
9: ECO ABS Test passed
10: 3D2print ABS Test passed
11: 3D Prima PLA Test passed
12: Makerbot PLA Test passed
13: iGo3d ABS Test passed
14: Hobbyking PLA Test passed
15: Hobbyking Bronzefill Test passed
16: Hobbyking POM Did not stick to buildtak

So it will be many 3dbenchys this coming weeks. :D I will post pictures and write about my finding after every print i do.

.......................................................................................................................................................................................................
Information from Bondtech

If you want to print your own housing instead of buying the SLS version you are of course free to do so.

Here is a link the the needed drivegears for the direct drive extruder, be sure to select to include the spring and the thumbscrew:
http://shop.bondtech.se/ec/kits/bondtec ... gears.html

M3 thread bushings: (10 pack) :
http://shop.bondtech.se/ec/components/t ... 0-pcs.html

4 mm Push-fits (you will need 1 for N1, 2 pcs for the N2 Hybrid, a spare is also good to have:
http://shop.bondtech.se/ec/components/p ... -4-mm.html

4/2 mm PTFE tubing: http://shop.bondtech.se/ec/components/p ... 24-mm.html

Bondtech QR Extruder 1.75 for hybrid setup (select the cable for Raise N1 & N2):
http://shop.bondtech.se/ec/extruders/bo ... ersal.html

Is there anything else you want to know just ask me, either throught this forum or to my e-mail: martin@bondtech.se or by Skype if you prefer: Skypename: martinbondeus
If you have any other questions I am at your disposal!
.......................................................................................................................................................................................................


Here is the file for the break out board case: https://pinshape.com/items/21341-3d-pri ... board-case

PDF Direct drive single extruder: https://www.dropbox.com/s/htndkal7mycrz ... 1.PDF?dl=0

Image

PDF Direct drive plus bowden dual extruder: https://www.dropbox.com/s/w7yhpsmhbem2n ... 2.PDF?dl=0

Image

Here is working g-code with new e-steps:

G21
G90
M82
M107
G28 X0 Y0
G28 Z0
G1 Z15.0 F{travel_speed}
G92 E0
G1 F140 E29
G1 X20 Y0 F140 E30
G92 E0
M92 E140
G1 F{travel_speed}
M117 Printing...

Or if you want Jetguy's firmware with new e-steps. Edit, fixed and working part cooling fan.

N1FanBondtechDual.firm
(329.59 KiB) Downloaded 31 times

N2FanBondtechDual.firm
(329.59 KiB) Downloaded 55 times

N2PlusFanBondtechDual.firm
(329.72 KiB) Downloaded 60 times


I would also suggest to adjust the stepper extruder motor voltage to 0.6v for a much cooler temp as in this guide: https://www.dropbox.com/s/rsda1wqhevtvo ... 8.pdf?dl=0



Image

Image

Image
Attachments
Marlin-Raise3D-N-Series-V1.1.4 - al.firm.zip
(98.47 KiB) Downloaded 38 times
Last edited by Trhuster on Sat Nov 12, 2016 7:44 am, edited 38 times in total.

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walshlg
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Re: Project Bondtech Extruder.

Postby walshlg » Mon Apr 25, 2016 5:03 pm

interesting looks like the hobs are huge rather than the fine teeth a lot of folks have gone with for flex filaments. Keep us updated.

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Trhuster
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Re: Project Bondtech Extruder.

Postby Trhuster » Mon Apr 25, 2016 5:18 pm

walshlg wrote:interesting looks like the hobs are huge rather than the fine teeth a lot of folks have gone with for flex filaments. Keep us updated.


I think you looking at the gear part, look at the other end. It is very fine teeth with small radius to not deform the shape off the filament.

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Re: Project Bondtech Extruder.

Postby Trhuster » Mon Apr 25, 2016 6:20 pm

So first print is done. Next one i will increase the speed to 80mm/s.
Observations, no strings and nice layers from what i can see. Slight lift from buildplate.

Filament: Z-ABS
Hotend Temp: 270C
Bed Temp: 100C
Layers: 0.2
Speed: 40mm/s, outline 50%, Speed Overrides 5sec 50%
Retraction Speed 90mm/s
Retraction Distance 1.4mm
Simplify3d suggested time 1h 09m
Real time: 1h 26m

Full size picture: http://i.imgur.com/4WdPft8.jpg

Image
Last edited by Trhuster on Mon Apr 25, 2016 8:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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walshlg
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Re: Project Bondtech Extruder.

Postby walshlg » Mon Apr 25, 2016 7:41 pm

glad to see a nice study design, can you try a flexible Filament?

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Trhuster
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Re: Project Bondtech Extruder.

Postby Trhuster » Mon Apr 25, 2016 7:45 pm

Second print is done. Next one i will increase the speed to 120mm/s.
Observations, no strings and still nice layers from what i can see. Som small blobs on chimney. Still some slight lift from buildplate.

Filament: Z-ABS
Hotend Temp: 280C
Bed Temp: 100C
Layers: 0.2
Speed: 80mm/s, outline 50%, Speed Overrides 5sec 50%
Retraction Speed 90mm/s
Retraction Distance 1.4mm
Simplify3d suggested time 37m
Real time: 58m

Full size picture: http://i.imgur.com/WqChebu.jpg

Image
Last edited by Trhuster on Mon Apr 25, 2016 8:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Trhuster
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Re: Project Bondtech Extruder.

Postby Trhuster » Mon Apr 25, 2016 7:47 pm

walshlg wrote:glad to see a nice study design, can you try a flexible Filament?


I guess i have to buy some flexible filaments first. :)

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Trhuster
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Re: Project Bondtech Extruder.

Postby Trhuster » Mon Apr 25, 2016 8:39 pm

Third print is done. Now we rocking, printer and table shaking quite alot. Wife is mad about noice and slamming bedroom door.

No point going higher on a small print like this, need to do it on a larger print but i save that for another day.
Observations, no strings and not to bad layers. Som blobs on the hull and chimney, guess i could lower extrusion abit and see if it helps. Still some slight lift from buildplate.

Extruder has not missed a beat and hotend really working good so far. No missed steps no slipping, love it. :) Going to bed now and continue with tests tomorrow after work.

Filament: Z-ABS
Hotend Temp: 290C
Bed Temp: 100C
Layers: 0.2
Speed: 120mm/s, outline 50%, Speed Overrides 5sec 50%
Retraction Speed 90mm/s
Retraction Distance 1.4mm
Simplify3d suggested time 26m
Real time: 55m

Full size picture: http://i.imgur.com/tZraHiA.jpg

Image

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Re: Project Bondtech Extruder.

Postby Trhuster » Tue Apr 26, 2016 8:07 am

I was thinking abot how to test the limit for the extruder after i am done with all the 3dbenchy's. I think if i draw up a cylinder around 100mm in diameter and then use spiralmode in Simplify3d to test how much volume it can handle. From what i read about this is that normally 10 mm³/s is around the limit with a 0.4 nozzle.

Or is it a better way to test this?

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Re: Project Bondtech Extruder

Postby Trhuster » Tue Apr 26, 2016 11:16 am

I went off early from work just so i could start testing maximum extrusion with Z-ABS before i change filemant and continue to print 3dbenchy's. So the test will be done with cylinder with dia 100m and 50mm high printed in vase mode. My formula for extrusion is: nozzle dia*layer thickness*speed=mm³/s. (0.4x0.2x80=6.4)

So starting easy with 6.4 mm³/s. Next test will be with 12.8 mm³/s, i have faith in V2 hotend and bondtech extruder! :)

Observations, a perfect print with no problems.


Filament: Z-ABS
Hotend Temp: 290C
Extrusion: 6.4 mm³/s
Bed Temp: 100C
Layers: 0.2, Single layer vase mode setting
Speed: 80mm/s, outline 100%, Speed Overrides disabled
Retraction Speed 90mm/s
Retraction Distance 1.4mm
Simplify3d suggested time 17m
Real time: 27m Included bed and nozzle heating.

Full size picture: http://i68.tinypic.com/x2jr6b.jpg

Image

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Re: Project Bondtech Extruder

Postby Trhuster » Tue Apr 26, 2016 11:29 am

So next one is with 12.8 mm³/s.

Observations, some very tiny white marks but no extrusion problems. Printhead is moving fast but N1 does a good job keeping up with X/Y/Z motions. Feels good. :)

Filament: Z-ABS
Hotend Temp: 290C
Extrusion: 12.8 mm³/s
Bed Temp: 100C
Layers: 0.2, Single layer vase mode setting
Speed: 160mm/s, outline 100%, Speed Overrides disabled
Retraction Speed 90mm/s
Retraction Distance 1.4mm
Simplify3d suggested time 8m
Real time: 18m Included bed and nozzle heating.

Full size picture: http://i66.tinypic.com/9id25j.jpg

Image

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Trhuster
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Re: Project Bondtech Extruder

Postby Trhuster » Tue Apr 26, 2016 11:40 am

I must ask is 300mm/s the fastest the N1 can do? This line from fw on github suggest it or have i missed something? And that would also mean that max speed for extruder is 25mm/s?

#define DEFAULT_MAX_FEEDRATE {300, 300, 5, 25} // (mm/sec)

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Re: Project Bondtech Extruder

Postby Trhuster » Tue Apr 26, 2016 12:28 pm

Something is holding speed back. 200mm/s was not faster than 160mm/s. Well, lets try 0.3 layers instead, then we can achive higher mm³/s valvues.

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Re: Project Bondtech Extruder

Postby Trhuster » Tue Apr 26, 2016 1:46 pm

I am unsure if it really moves in 160mm/s. I doubt it, but if it is correct we now extruding 19.2mm³/s. But if i would guess it mabey moves at 120mm/s and that would still be impressive with 14.4mm³/s extrusion.

No point in testing this any more untill someone can comfirm what the max speed in X/Y and extruder for N1 is. As you can see in the video it moves pretty fast and that is with 0.3 layers, no problem for extruder at all to keep up.

https://youtu.be/b82RQ4lZXlw

Moving on to boats with different filaments now instead, i hope V2 hotend can print them all. :)

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Trhuster
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Re: Project Bondtech Extruder

Postby Trhuster » Tue Apr 26, 2016 3:14 pm

So now we testing Z-Ultrat, it is a blend off ABS and some PC in it. Very strong and very shiny.

Observations, no strings and but some small problems if looking closley. I don't like how shiny it is, but V2 hotend did good. Slight lift from buildplate.

Filament: Z-ULTRAT
Hotend Temp: 280C
Bed Temp: 100C
Layers: 0.2
Speed: 80mm/s, outline 50%, Speed Overrides 5sec 50%
Retraction Speed 90mm/s
Retraction Distance 1.4mm
Simplify3d suggested time 37m
Real time: 58m

Full size picture: http://i65.tinypic.com/o57syc.jpg

Image

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Re: Project Bondtech Extruder

Postby Trhuster » Tue Apr 26, 2016 4:26 pm

Z-HIPS next, it is weak material but looks nice. Not so shiny.

Observations, no strings but i see some rining ect. Well all have some rining at 80mm/s. No lift!

Filament: Z-HIPS
Hotend Temp: 280C
Bed Temp: 100C
Layers: 0.2
Speed: 80mm/s, outline 50%, Speed Overrides 5sec 50%
Retraction Speed 90mm/s
Retraction Distance 1.4mm
Simplify3d suggested time 37m
Real time: 58m

Full size picture: http://i66.tinypic.com/neggo0.jpg

Image

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Re: Project Bondtech Extruder

Postby walshlg » Tue Apr 26, 2016 4:30 pm

Too high a speed and your deceleration time may actually slow you down.

Another idea- fill on smaller cross sections can really start the oscillations going. May I request A test of say a rectangle with something like 20% fill at right angles and 45 degrees (maybe just make a bent box with one leg at 45 degrees). then you can see max acceleration, speed and deceleration effects and see if the fill messes up the outer layer.

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Trhuster
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Re: Project Bondtech Extruder

Postby Trhuster » Tue Apr 26, 2016 4:56 pm

walshlg wrote:Too high a speed and your deceleration time may actually slow you down.

Another idea- fill on smaller cross sections can really start the oscillations going. May I request A test of say a rectangle with something like 20% fill at right angles and 45 degrees (maybe just make a bent box with one leg at 45 degrees). then you can see max acceleration, speed and deceleration effects and see if the fill messes up the outer layer.


Just link me to a test from thingiverse and i will print it for you. :)

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Re: Project Bondtech Extruder

Postby Trhuster » Tue Apr 26, 2016 6:36 pm

So finally my first PLA print on N1! Had alot off problem with Colorfabb PLA on my Clone R1 with all metal hotend. But V2 hotend printed it like a champ!

Observations, no strings but i same ringing as the other boats ect. No lift from bed. I like how it look, shiny but still nice.

Filament: Colorfabb PLA
Hotend Temp: 200C
Bed Temp: 60C
Layers: 0.2
Speed: 80mm/s, outline 50%, Speed Overrides 5sec 50%
Retraction Speed 90mm/s
Retraction Distance 1.4mm
Simplify3d suggested time 37m
Real time: 58m

Full size picture: http://i.imgur.com/kMgkd1i.jpg

Image

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walshlg
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Re: Project Bondtech Extruder

Postby walshlg » Tue Apr 26, 2016 7:12 pm

super job. What do you think the layering problem is at the bow?


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