Bondtech BMG upgrade for the N series

Topics around mechanical design, controller and electronics. Mods & hacks welcome.
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Bondtech
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Re: Bondtech BMG upgrade for the N series

Postby Bondtech » Mon May 22, 2017 6:03 am

dorbar wrote:So 200$ for extruder without pancake steppers, right? Hmm a bit steep price. What would be a "full kit" with pancakes? Not sure if I need the PTFE tubes though..

EDIT:
Please Maritn (Bondtech) do clarify a bit a text on the prduct page:
"This product uses lightweight Nema17 Pancake steppermotors combined with a 3:1 internal gearing ratio and our proven DualDrive gears."

I would understand that in the price the pancakes are already there. But further down the page:
Kit contains everything you need to rebuild your printer.

1 x DualDirect extruder
2 x 0.7 m PTFE 4/2 mm guide tube
1 x Breakout board cover

So this got me thinking :? ...are motors actually part of the extruder or not?

Cheers,D



The price is with the pancake steppers included.

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Bondtech
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Re: Bondtech BMG upgrade for the N series

Postby Bondtech » Mon May 22, 2017 6:04 am

dorbar wrote:@Bondtech
Ehhh khm. sorry for bothering... Are you sure about the weight numbers? On your website it says;
"Original extruder setup on Raise3D is 890g this new upgrade is 425g and it affects the performance a lot."
(http://shop.bondtech.se/ec/upgrade-kits ... grade.html)
So If I get this right... the stock setup with the usual steppers is 890g, right?! While with a new Bondtechs' setup, but with the same old steppers we get 425g? Is that right? I kind of a doubt it... You probably forgot to say that those 425g are achieved with the "optional" (?) pancake motors, right?
Please correct me if I'm missing something.

THX


Hi Don´t be sorry :-) I was refering to the original Dual setup, motors, alu-plate, cover, bolts etc.
The weight of 425g is with the included pancake steppers.

socke
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Re: Bondtech BMG upgrade for the N series

Postby socke » Mon May 22, 2017 6:39 am

Bondtech wrote:
Wolfman wrote:Is there a single extruder version? Or is it possible to remove the second motor to make it even lighter?

The right side can of course be emptly of components that would make it a single version (left hotend occupied).
How big interest is it for a single version?


I'm interested in a single version, too.

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woofy
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Re: Bondtech BMG upgrade for the N series

Postby woofy » Mon May 22, 2017 9:54 am

Bondtech wrote:The extruder kit is now up in the webshop,

Order placed!
Raise3D N2+, Ultimaker2 & UP plus printers.

Wolfman
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Re: Bondtech BMG upgrade for the N series

Postby Wolfman » Mon May 22, 2017 3:56 pm

I'll order the single version if available. Never had much luck with dual nozzle setups that have the nozzles on the same level. If the single version will be cheaper, sign me up for one!

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JohnSays
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Re: Bondtech BMG upgrade for the N series

Postby JohnSays » Mon May 22, 2017 5:38 pm

I ordered. I decided to not break up my existing BondTec extruders despite a discount.
- John
2 Raise3D N2 Duals, V2 nozzles, Bondtech BMGs, and adjustable table

firesped
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Re: Bondtech BMG upgrade for the N series

Postby firesped » Mon May 22, 2017 8:29 pm

ordered one, now just to get the rest of the parts I need for my printer ordered.
RL name: Michael Nolen
printers:
raise3D N2 kickstarter Early Bird
Trinus Deluxe (running smoothieware on Azteeg X5 GT board)
Monoprice Maker Select v2

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SteveWallin
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Re: Bondtech BMG upgrade for the N series

Postby SteveWallin » Mon May 22, 2017 11:24 pm

+1 for a single version @Bondtech

GoffyOne
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Re: Bondtech BMG upgrade for the N series

Postby GoffyOne » Tue May 23, 2017 8:44 pm

I see only one version on the shop, is it for the casted or machined carrier? Or does it work With ether one.

Newer mind did see that info on the shop, that it works With both.

frjez
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Re: Bondtech BMG upgrade for the N series

Postby frjez » Thu May 25, 2017 9:24 pm

Anyone that can show us his installation of the new Bontech extruders, beside jetguy? He doesn't count :-)

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woofy
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Re: Bondtech BMG upgrade for the N series

Postby woofy » Thu May 25, 2017 9:46 pm

Not sure if anyone's got them yet.
I ordered on Monday but have not even had an acknowledgement so far.
Raise3D N2+, Ultimaker2 & UP plus printers.

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Bondtech
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Re: Bondtech BMG upgrade for the N series

Postby Bondtech » Fri May 26, 2017 8:04 am

Hi Guys, installation video is now out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNZepBI4WbQ

Most of the orders will be sent today!

Have a great day / weekend!

firesped
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Re: Bondtech BMG upgrade for the N series

Postby firesped » Sun May 28, 2017 1:06 am

Mine is currently on the plane over the altantic ocean.
RL name: Michael Nolen
printers:
raise3D N2 kickstarter Early Bird
Trinus Deluxe (running smoothieware on Azteeg X5 GT board)
Monoprice Maker Select v2

dorbar
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Re: Bondtech BMG upgrade for the N series

Postby dorbar » Mon May 29, 2017 12:06 pm

@Martin (Bontech).
Got mine today. Easy installation. Good video! I would just request - for the sake of completness, to put either a short video or a link on how to setup the drivers (current limiting) here for all to use.

EDIT:
Appologies to Martin! The documentation - "how to" is already there. You just need to wach a YouTube video til the end! :D

But for those that like shortcuts:
Mechanical installation video
at 5:50 ...check the Vref=0,5V for current liniting and the link for the settings guide:
Current liniting settings guide

Setting the Current Limit on Pololu Stepper Motor Driver Carriers (a good one in my oppinion):
General setup for Pololu type Stepper Drivers

...and a well known Thomas:
How steppers work and how to adjust their drivers

dorbar
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Re: Bondtech BMG upgrade for the N series

Postby dorbar » Mon May 29, 2017 1:48 pm

WARNING!

In the Installation video at 4:02 it says that if you have "new black motors" setup you have to change position of the two leftmost wires. Well in my setup (Raise3D N2+ from DEC2016) THIS IS NOT A CASE! IT IS A DIRECT REPLACEMENT!

dorbar
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Re: Bondtech BMG upgrade for the N series

Postby dorbar » Mon May 29, 2017 2:39 pm

If for some strange unthinkable reason, someone does not trust Martin from Bondtech or Jetguy, here is an independent ...view:
Original Raise3D Dual Extruder.jpg

Direct Dual Extruder for Raise3D N2.jpg


a little math... 849,8g-455,6g= 394,2g

This my friends IT IS HUGE!!!!!!! You have to take in consideration, that this is additional 400g moving arround at a considerable accelaration! (mass x acceleration =Force)
In a layman terms this means more stress to the motors+electronics, more stress to the guiding rods, more possibility that some screw got untighten. Not to mention much much more vibration with a visible effect on the built part in form of stairs!

BRAVO BONDTECH!!! Raise3D should take in consideration to put it on their printers by default!

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JohnSays
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Re: Bondtech BMG upgrade for the N series

Postby JohnSays » Mon May 29, 2017 4:53 pm

Thank you dorbar and I agree about the BondTec or something like it being the default on the Raise3D. It is a must replacement -- even the prior BondTec version 1 is a huge improvement.

Martin, Please comment on dorbar's announcement that no wire mod is needed on black motors. What is that about? I have both black (Feb 2017) and silver (July 2016).
- John
2 Raise3D N2 Duals, V2 nozzles, Bondtech BMGs, and adjustable table

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Bondtech
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Re: Bondtech BMG upgrade for the N series

Postby Bondtech » Mon May 29, 2017 5:31 pm

JohnSays wrote:Thank you dorbar and I agree about the BondTec or something like it being the default on the Raise3D. It is a must replacement -- even the prior BondTec version 1 is a huge improvement.

Martin, Please comment on dorbar's announcement that no wire mod is needed on black motors. What is that about? I have both black (Feb 2017) and silver (July 2016).


Regarding the wiring, our printer is an older unit using the silver motors, Jetguy informed us that he had to change the rotation direction for one of the motors with his printer that has the newer motors, as we currently do not have a printer with the newer motors at hand we have not the possibility to verify it.

As you might know the reason for switching one pair of the wires is to change the rotation direction for the motor, as there is a number of kits during delivery right now I would appreciate if we can cooperate on defining if the rotation direction must be changed or not, after the clear analysis is made we will update the video in order to give correct instructions.

Jetguy
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Re: Bondtech BMG upgrade for the N series

Postby Jetguy » Mon May 29, 2017 6:19 pm

Mine was a brand new N2 plus with the black motor, now it came as a single and had the wiring for dual extruder including the stepper and had the second thermocouple in the cable chain.
So technically, I never had a stock dual extruder second motor plugged in to valid original out of the box rotation, but I find it hard to believe that it would be wrong out of the box.

What I'm saying is, again, for the second extruder motor, I know I had to switch the wiring on that second motor (the rear motor is the right hand side motor). I would just make the instructions "If the motor rotates the wrong way, then this is how you correct that".

Jetguy
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Re: Bondtech BMG upgrade for the N series

Postby Jetguy » Mon May 29, 2017 6:20 pm

Sorry again, I'm trying to share all technical details, but I only know what I have in front of me. I don't know if the factory swaps the wiring or something when adding a second extruder and because mine was a single it was not swapped or what the deal was.


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