Project Dual Titan Extruder

Topics around mechanical design, controller and electronics. Mods & hacks welcome.
p.bjoennes
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:44 am

Project Dual Titan Extruder

Postby p.bjoennes » Thu Mar 23, 2017 4:11 pm

Hi.
Here is my latest creation Dual titan extruder for the Rise3d N2+.
After a week of fiddling round with different combinations of placing the gears, I finally cracked the code.
The design is completed and printed.
I have just assembled it and gone update the firmware and start testing later this week.
The total wight fore the hole assembly with 26mm long stepper motors are just below 500g.
I am very exited to start testing and will post the results later on.
Attachments
Dual Extruder Printed Titan Right.JPG
Dual Extruder Printed Titan Iso.JPG
Dual Extruder Printed Titan Front.JPG
DSC_0615.JPG
DSC_0613.JPG

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walshlg
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Re: Project Dual Titan Extruder

Postby walshlg » Thu Mar 23, 2017 4:22 pm

NICE! Let us know how it goes

swampy
Posts: 239
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 7:18 pm
Location: BEDFORDSHIRE UK

Re: Project Dual Titan Extruder

Postby swampy » Thu Mar 23, 2017 5:10 pm

top job that i take it it is lighter than what is fitted already

p.bjoennes
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:44 am

Re: Project Dual Titan Extruder

Postby p.bjoennes » Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:41 pm

Have finished the first singel extruder print and it seams that everything is functioning properly.
Started a dual extruder print that will be ready tomorrow and that i can compare to the same print on the old setup.
The biggest diffidence i can tell right away is less vibrations in the machine on hige speed and on vigling chamfer and curved edges.
The final weight on the assembly is 496g, standard dual extruder is 879g, center of mase is lowered 26mm compared to standard.
I will post some photos later on.

lami3d
Posts: 207
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2016 7:40 am
Location: Marseille - France

Re: Project Dual Titan Extruder

Postby lami3d » Fri Mar 24, 2017 6:00 pm

Wow, i can't believe my eyes ! BRAVO
Just wonder how the prints are going to be and how it's going to behave over time.

lami3d
Posts: 207
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2016 7:40 am
Location: Marseille - France

Re: Project Dual Titan Extruder

Postby lami3d » Fri Mar 24, 2017 6:08 pm

Just also, do you change the voltage of the motors (like for the bondtech mod) ?

Because, in the Raise3d design, i thought the metal mounting plate was also here to dissipate motors heat.
Maybe a test to print ABS or PC with printer closed during 2 hours to see if there is no issue with the motors temperature?

p.bjoennes
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:44 am

Re: Project Dual Titan Extruder

Postby p.bjoennes » Fri Mar 24, 2017 8:34 pm

Yes I changed the voltage from 0.95v to 0.35 and changed the direction by switching place on the two outer wires, I am using this steppermotor: http://www.robotdigg.com/product/6/NEMA ... Long,-0.8A. I have used this motors on several other designs with great success.
After 5 hours of a 8 hour PETG print, 250 deg on nozzle and 80 deg on the bed in a closed chamber I can hold my hand on the motor with out burning my fingers.
The torque of the extruder are more than enough due to the 3:1 gear reduction.
An other thing, switching filament are now extremely ease just push the lever and drag the filament out and revers for loading.

So fare are everything funksjon very well, I keep you updated on further progress.
Cheers!!

lami3d
Posts: 207
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2016 7:40 am
Location: Marseille - France

Re: Project Dual Titan Extruder

Postby lami3d » Sat Mar 25, 2017 11:30 am

Great ! Tx

p.bjoennes
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:44 am

Re: Project Dual Titan Extruder

Postby p.bjoennes » Sun Mar 26, 2017 9:15 pm

Hi All.

The main reason for this upgrade and design is that I have had several issues with failing PLA prints especially very detailed prints with lot of retraction. Yes I have the V2 hot end but still it failed. I identified the problem to be heat transferring from the extruder motors in to the filament guide. You start up with a stiff filament and after an hour or two ends up with a flex like filament and if you have a lot of push and pull it will end up clogging your guide tube. I have spent a lot of time trying to solve this, but I would not compromise on the functions ore build volume to solve it.

Since I am a big fan of geared extruders especially the E3D Titan, I have already four printers fitted with that extruder (Wanhao I3, Wanhao D6, Prusa MK2 and a self design A3 size printer). I figured I will give the Titan a try, but it was a really pain. When I thought I had cracked the cod it crashed into something, I twisted, turned and mirrored in all directions without any luck. I am a stubborn mechanical engineer with an engineering motto, how hard can it really be, trust me this one was hard. One day it just fell in to place and the PB 3D Design R3D Dual Titan was borne on the 21 of March 2017.

I finished the assembly on the 23 of March and after some struggling with the firmware (remember dual extruder option in Configuration H) I did my first PLA print without any trouble. After that I did a PLA dual color print successfully. I don’t know if the quality is any better the quality was already there, the details are little crisper and less ringing round holes. But the main goal is achieved no more clogging without compromising on build volume. I have tested PLA, ABS and PETG without any issues.

I will release the design on Thingivers in the near future, but I don’t have the time to be very detailed or supportive on build information, but I will share the information I have on this design. It is a very compact design with tight tolerances so some preparation after printing must be expected.

Sorry for not uploading any test pictures but my pone camera got broken right after I started testing.

Best Regards
PB.

p.bjoennes
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:44 am

Re: Project Dual Titan Extruder

Postby p.bjoennes » Tue Mar 28, 2017 1:20 pm

Hi.
Sorry for not posting any pictures of the print result, but my camera are still broken.
As promised earlier, the files and information on this design are now published on Thingivers: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2207389

Best Regards
PB

Enjoy!

Evan
Posts: 95
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2016 3:07 pm

Re: Project Dual Titan Extruder

Postby Evan » Mon Apr 03, 2017 1:44 pm

Did you change the firmware or did you just reduce the extrusion rate down to 1/3?

p.bjoennes
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:44 am

Re: Project Dual Titan Extruder

Postby p.bjoennes » Mon Apr 03, 2017 6:18 pm

Evan wrote:Did you change the firmware or did you just reduce the extrusion rate down to 1/3?

I changed the Firmware.

Jetguy
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Re: Project Dual Titan Extruder

Postby Jetguy » Fri Apr 07, 2017 6:31 pm

BTW, it looks like Martin himself from Bondtech might even have a newer solution along the same lines. The difference is, he got them facing each other so motor front, motor back. Same 3:1 ratio as the new BMG setup.

Not in any way trying to knock the work here, just saying, Martin is doing a great deal of work to support the Raise 3D N series and is working on the super lightweight dual drive variant based on his new BMG line. He said this, "So it is 30g more than hybrid extruder with one original stepper motor." You heard that right, a dual extruder just barely grams heavier than the single. Keep in mind, a single Bondtech is lighter than the factory single too. That's the result of a nylon housing VS the large aluminum milled block. I'm just drooling over this new design.
Attachments
Raise3D Bondtechdual.jpg

Jetguy
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Re: Project Dual Titan Extruder

Postby Jetguy » Fri Apr 07, 2017 6:33 pm

Now keep in mind, that's just a complete teaser picture he sent to me, in a test setup, and he's just got the wires tied up in a testing config.

p.bjoennes
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:44 am

Re: Project Dual Titan Extruder

Postby p.bjoennes » Thu Apr 13, 2017 11:52 am

Jetguy wrote:Now keep in mind, that's just a complete teaser picture he sent to me, in a test setup, and he's just got the wires tied up in a testing config.
Thanks Jetguy for sharing information on other dual extruder gear solutions.
I know firsthand how hard it is to find a good solution on the dual extruder challenge especially if you don’t want to compromise on the build volume the space are limited in front and side direction. One issue I had with my shorter 26mm stepper motors was that they made a terrible high pitch noise, I had two different types and I even tried different step sticks the noise was still there so I had to go for the 34mm long motors instead. That’s why I went for the rear mount solution. That said I wish everyone that will take on this challenge the best of luck, we need more and better solutions.

firesped
Posts: 573
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2016 9:23 pm
Location: Tucson, AZ

Re: Project Dual Titan Extruder

Postby firesped » Fri Apr 14, 2017 4:41 am

I like the look of that new bondtech design. that would let me recycle my QR universal into my trinus.
RL name: Michael Nolen


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