Day 1: Board error: Error 1: Extruder switched off. MINT...

Topics around mechanical design, controller and electronics. Mods & hacks welcome.
allergictotrees
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Day 1: Board error: Error 1: Extruder switched off. MINT...

Postby allergictotrees » Sat Jan 14, 2017 2:50 am

I just received my N2+ and was able to print a benchy in PLA. Later that night I get this error on the display: "Board error: Error:1: Extruder switched off. MINT...". After pressing Restart I get the same message. I've also restarted using the manual switch behind the control panel, same message appears on the display. I've tried enterting safe mode (click on the link at the bottom) but there is not much I can do from that point except look at local files. All the other buttons on the bottom row are disabled.

I've also checked the connections to the step motors and the wired connections behind the extruders. Help please. :?
Attachments
IMG_20170113_162331.jpg

Jetguy
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Re: Day 1: Board error: Error 1: Extruder switched off. MINT...

Postby Jetguy » Sat Jan 14, 2017 3:21 am

Ok, let's go over the basics.
This is a 2 board system meaning there are 2 totally separate controllers in this printer. The one in front of you is the pcDuino running Linux and the application displays on the screen. The board you don't see is in the rear control box in the filament bay and it's running Marlin firmware and talking over a USB to serial conversion and thus a serial console to the front firmware.

BOTH boards are performing safety checks so you don't burn up the printer from a runaway heater. When you turn on the REAR power switch, that is MAIN POWER for everything. It is the AC coming in from the wall and turning on the 24V main 400+ watt PSU that delivers power to everything else. When that happens, the motion control board boots Marlin firmware and instantly checks to see that the thermocouples on both extruders and the thermistor on the bed is reporting a valid temp within a known limited range. If the sensor is disconnected in any way, even for a second while powered, the board sees an out of range temperature and locks out ANY functions. This is to protect you. At the same time the system powers up, the front panel pcDuino computer sees that power come on, waits a few seconds on a timer delay relay that basically hits the power on button on the pcDuino board. It then boots linux and the Raise 3D user interface on the LCD. The First thing it does is try to talk to to the motion controller over the serial port over USB. It's looking for a good status report from that board. Marlin will keep sending a "MINTEMP" error if the thermocouple(s) or thermistors are not functioning and the front panel LCD will stop at that display and the screen actually is telling you the error right there to your face, you just didn't understand it. The cutoff text would say MINTEMP.

Let's go over safemode. Safemode is there so if you royally mess up and trying to flash the marlin motion control firmware and somehow, some way you program a bad firmware to the motion control board, this lets you reflash it using the local file system. This is not the problem you have right now, but wanted to tell you what that mode is for. It also would let you pull and post the loag files, but they are just going to tell us what I just told you and the LCD is telling you, Marlin is reporting the extruder has a MINTEMP error meaning the thermocouple is NOT operational.

Note, the one picture shows the ribbon cable but was part of a modified extruder post. Regardless, you have the same cable in the same basic position that must be fully seated into the extruder breakout board before the system is powered on. If it comes unplugged during a print or powered on cycle, you must power down and fix it, then power on with it working.

More likely than not, it's just the ribbon cable that plugs into the extruder breakout board has come loose.
Because the cable bends and moves as the heads move around, it's relatively easy for it to come unplugged. Some printers came with a ziptie that went around the entire board and plug to hold the plug seated into the board.
Attachments
Feedermodsingleribbon.jpg
raise3d NuEi headbreakout.jpg.jpg

Jetguy
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Re: Day 1: Board error: Error 1: Extruder switched off. MINT...

Postby Jetguy » Sat Jan 14, 2017 3:58 am

And, the second reason for posting the extruder breakout is that if it's not the ribbon cable unplugged, then the one set of wires you couldn't even see because the printed plastic housing that has the raise 3D logo on it covering the front of the breakout board is where the thermocouple wiring screw terminals are. You have to go to a bit of effort, remove the 2 M3 screws holding that entire board and housing to the main extruder feeder upright section to then slide the housing forward to see the screw terminals. The thermocouple wires are polarity sensitive, that's why the picture say red beside the screw terminal. The upper is the left extruder which is the primary AKA tool 0 and the right extruder is the lower terminal and that is tool 1. The error message listed tool 1, but again, either fault here could trigger the message, either the ribbon cable coming slightly unplugged or the thermocouple wires themselves not properly tightened in that tiny screw terminal.

The larger wires and screw terminals at the back are the heater cartridges and as stated, they would not trigger a mintemp error. They could cause a heater not to heat and cause a different fault, but not the mintemp.

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Day 1: Board error: Error 1: Extruder switched off. MINT...

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Sat Jan 14, 2017 4:03 am

For the ribbon cable, please not only check the extruder board side but also the electronic box side.
1.png
2.png


The electronic box is a black plastic box at right, bottom Remove its cover you can see motion board inside with lots wires connected.
4.png


And both as Jetguy said, the connections of thermocouples on extruder board. You need to remove the plastic cover first to check. After checking, please assemble the plastic cover back.
3.png

allergictotrees
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Re: Day 1: Board error: Error 1: Extruder switched off. MINT...

Postby allergictotrees » Sat Jan 14, 2017 3:57 pm

Wow, thanks for the very detailed overview of the system and the possible solutions Jetguy and Vicky! I will check these out and report back. thanks again!

allergictotrees
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Re: Day 1: Board error: Error 1: Extruder switched off. MINT...

Postby allergictotrees » Sat Jan 14, 2017 5:31 pm

UPDATE: Printer is working again! I retightened both ends of the cable, the one in the box at the bottom was glued in but pressed it in to be sure. Took apart the housing (with the logo) and retightened the screws behind it. Not sure which was one the problem but I'm back at the print screen. Thanks for the reply/help!

allergictotrees
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Re: Day 1: Board error: Error 1: Extruder switched off. MINT...

Postby allergictotrees » Sun Jan 15, 2017 4:18 pm

ok, so the problem is BACK :( . I'm wondering if the room temperature has something to do with the issue. I keep the printer in my garage/workshop that can get cold (currently 48 degrees F). Will the ambient temperature of the room affect the printer? I have a Makerbot Replicator 2X and have never had a problem with cold ambient temperature. @jetguy, you mentioned "thermistor on the bed is reporting a valid temp within a known limited range." maybe I am hitting the low end of the limited range? could this be causing this error?

Jetguy
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Re: Day 1: Board error: Error 1: Extruder switched off. MINT...

Postby Jetguy » Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:09 am

Yes, low ambient temps "could" trigger mintemp, but the without seeing the log file, it's hard to troubleshoot from this end.
That's the other reason safemode exists, you can use a USB thumbdrive to copy the log file allowing you to post it here and to support.

Just saying, it's impossible to troubleshoot from this side of the internet without more information.

Also, I have to flat out tell you, operating a 3D printer in a room that low (48F)- not going to end well for you. It has nothing to do with the machine, but plastic does not print right without reasonable ambient temps. Hot or cold, it will cause issues. Why are you putting a nearly $3k machine in that kind of condition??? This is your new baby, treat it right and it will treat you right. Temps like that cause condensation, rusting of bearings, and other issues, let alone the fact that again, you cannot reliably print like that. This is not a good home for the printer.

allergictotrees
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Re: Day 1: Board error: Error 1: Extruder switched off. MINT...

Postby allergictotrees » Tue Jan 17, 2017 7:30 pm

thanks for the feedback Jetguy. it turns out that the thermocoupler wire is defective and they are sending a replacement. I have had a makerbot rep2x for the past couple years that has been in the same garage/workshop and I've been successfull in printing small and large (bb8) projects. But I hear you on the condensation and rust. I'm looking into bringing it in the house but need to set up better ventilation as I also print in ABS. over the spring/summer I am going to add insulation and flooring to the garage to mitigate the condensation/rust concerns you mentioned.

Jetguy
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Re: Day 1: Board error: Error 1: Extruder switched off. MINT...

Postby Jetguy » Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:14 pm

I'm trying to give you good info.
Like thinking on an N2, you are going to print huge parts in ABS, and do so in workshop, print for hours and hours, in a non-climate controlled environment- that's not setting you up for success.
Remember, the bigger the part, the bigger the shrinkage. You cannot fight the physical properties of ABS.
It comes out of the nozzle at 230C fully expanded. When it cools to room temp on a layer by layer basis, it's going to shrink when cooled. That's why ABS is used in molds, it's made to shrink out of the mold. The heated bed and enclosed chamber only go so far for controlling temps. And at best, we are trying to minimize shrinkage by maintaining an elevated temp inside the printer. The problem is, that only goes so far and is minimally effective. What I'm telling you is, stuff you "got away with" on your smaller printer, isn't likely to cut the mustard here with bigger parts.

Jetguy
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Re: Day 1: Board error: Error 1: Extruder switched off. MINT...

Postby Jetguy » Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:26 pm

Also, sorry you are having problems but the answer is unlikely a "defective" thermocouple.
What is far more likely is that in the tightly cramped space where they attach to the screw terminals that fiberglass insulation on the wires frayed and you had an intermittent short of the wires right at the connection, or that the wire just was not correctly into the screw terminal and even though you tightened it, that did nothing because the wire was UNDER the moving terminal block and never actually gripped the wire (a common mistake when using that type of terminal). I always unscrew the screw as much as possible and press down on the screw in the green block. I then visually inspect the hole before inserting the wire to see the little square metal block inside is fully down and thus the hole is open, then on thin wires, fold the wire in half to make a little loop for better grip inside, and then tighten the terminal. I also again visually inspect, tug gently on the wires to make sure. Then I go even further and carefully bend the wires in opposite sides and directions to ensure even if the insulation does fray, they don't short right there at the connector.

I'm glad they are sending you parts, but again, even if you replace it, this is where you can make the same mistake.
I'd test and figure this out now while waiting on the part.

allergictotrees
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Re: Day 1: Board error: Error 1: Extruder switched off. MINT...

Postby allergictotrees » Wed Jan 18, 2017 5:28 pm

wires were/are looped and secure. I did in fact unscrew them all the way out to make sure that I could seat them in between the clip as instructed by Raise3D support. The error on the display changed from an error1 to an error0 which led them to believe it is a defective cable.

firesped
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Re: Day 1: Board error: Error 1: Extruder switched off. MINT...

Postby firesped » Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:06 pm

my printer is in an outdoor environment as well. if the hotends are too cold, below 5 C, the printer will not start until they are warm enough.

the # in the error message is indicating which part is sending the error message. 0 = extruder 0 (left side) 1 = extruder 1 (right side), -1 or 9 is the hot bed, not sure. my hard drive took a dump and I am in the process of recovering the files. at least the most current firmware I was working on is on github.
RL name: Michael Nolen
printers:
raise3D N2 kickstarter Early Bird
Trinus Deluxe (running smoothieware on Azteeg X5 GT board)
Monoprice Maker Select v2

frjez
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Re: Day 1: Board error: Error 1: Extruder switched off. MINT...

Postby frjez » Tue Jan 24, 2017 3:54 am

Jetguy wrote:Ok, let's go over the basics.
This is a 2 board system meaning there are 2 totally separate controllers in this printer. The one in front of you is the pcDuino running Linux and the application displays on the screen. The board you don't see is in the rear control box in the filament bay and it's running Marlin firmware and talking over a USB to serial conversion and thus a serial console to the front firmware.
...
More likely than not, it's just the ribbon cable that plugs into the extruder breakout board has come loose.
Because the cable bends and moves as the heads move around, it's relatively easy for it to come unplugged. Some printers came with a ziptie that went around the entire board and plug to hold the plug seated into the board.


Hey Jetguy where did you get all this info?
I'm wondering on the picture of the extruder breakout board beside the "always-on" fan connectors there are two others. What are they for? You wrote on the picture that are controllable by PWM... what for?
I'm asking because the F***** fans are always on even when I'm not printing! And I'm wondering it this can be controlled in a way?!
BTW... any idea why this fans are always on? they are very, very loud and annoying.

Jetguy
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Re: Day 1: Board error: Error 1: Extruder switched off. MINT...

Postby Jetguy » Tue Jan 24, 2017 1:10 pm

I got all that information from being a Kickstarter backer, exhaustively studying the details written about during the campaign, doing my own research on schematics, taking my printers apart (N1 and N2) when I got them and documenting and reverse engineering as much as I could.

The fans are always on for safety cooling of the cold section of the extruders. Rather than depending on firmware to know when to kick the fans on, they chose to connect them to a constant on source. The breakout only has 2 controlled fan outputs, one is already gcode controlled for what would be a 3rd print layer cooling fan. While you can load custom firmware and connect the fans differently, that is not officially recommended by Raise 3D. Here is a search that produces quite a few links to the info search.php?keywords=noise+reduction&terms=all&author=&sc=1&sf=all&sr=posts&sk=t&sd=d&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Search

I'd tone it down about 2 notches if you want people to help you. Kicking in the front door screaming in your first couple of posts isn't the best way to make an opening statement.

Biggeek
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Re: Day 1: Board error: Error 1: Extruder switched off. MINT...

Postby Biggeek » Fri Feb 10, 2017 5:33 am

Was this ever solved? On top of all the problems I've been having.. only being able to print 1 piece at a time.. now I have exactly the same problem.. all cables are secure and seated..checked and re checked... still have the same error coming up. Its been about a year now and this printer has not just printed 1 print without some issue or another

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Day 1: Board error: Error 1: Extruder switched off. MINT...

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Fri Feb 10, 2017 8:18 am

Biggeek wrote:Was this ever solved? On top of all the problems I've been having.. only being able to print 1 piece at a time.. now I have exactly the same problem.. all cables are secure and seated..checked and re checked... still have the same error coming up. Its been about a year now and this printer has not just printed 1 print without some issue or another


Please shoot a ticket on our support system. We will help you check out what the problem is.

Biggeek
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Re: Day 1: Board error: Error 1: Extruder switched off. MINT...

Postby Biggeek » Fri Feb 10, 2017 8:27 am

Did that before I posted.. no answer so far.. now the printer wont even start... just goes directly to the error message...
Vicky@Raise3D wrote:
Biggeek wrote:Was this ever solved? On top of all the problems I've been having.. only being able to print 1 piece at a time.. now I have exactly the same problem.. all cables are secure and seated..checked and re checked... still have the same error coming up. Its been about a year now and this printer has not just printed 1 print without some issue or another


Please shoot a ticket on our support system. We will help you check out what the problem is.

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Day 1: Board error: Error 1: Extruder switched off. MINT...

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Fri Feb 10, 2017 8:43 am

Biggeek wrote:Did that before I posted.. no answer so far.. now the printer wont even start... just goes directly to the error message...
Vicky@Raise3D wrote:
Biggeek wrote:Was this ever solved? On top of all the problems I've been having.. only being able to print 1 piece at a time.. now I have exactly the same problem.. all cables are secure and seated..checked and re checked... still have the same error coming up. Its been about a year now and this printer has not just printed 1 print without some issue or another


Please shoot a ticket on our support system. We will help you check out what the problem is.


Please PM me your ticket number. Will ask my colleague to help you as soon as possible.

Biggeek
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Re: Day 1: Board error: Error 1: Extruder switched off. MINT...

Postby Biggeek » Fri Feb 10, 2017 9:34 am

Ticket number and PM sent a while ago.. no reply yet..
Vicky@Raise3D wrote:
Biggeek wrote:Did that before I posted.. no answer so far.. now the printer wont even start... just goes directly to the error message...
Vicky@Raise3D wrote:
Please shoot a ticket on our support system. We will help you check out what the problem is.


Please PM me your ticket number. Will ask my colleague to help you as soon as possible.


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