Smooth sides.

Topics around mechanical design, controller and electronics. Mods & hacks welcome.
OleRasmussen
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Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2016 6:31 pm

Smooth sides.

Postby OleRasmussen » Wed Oct 26, 2016 6:43 pm

Greetings from Norway!

Just unpacked my new Raise3d n2 plus, and i have to say I'm realy pleased with the printer sofar!:) Liked the plug and play functionality of it! :)

Now hers what I'm struggling with:

The machine is not printing straight on the X axis, In an up and down motion, it seems that its moving some in the Y axis aswell.
Have tried to see if any screws are loose and have greased up the rods with some luube (good quality). When i print out circles this dosen't seem to happend, its only when I'm printing straight squares in the X-axis. Both front and back of the part is like this.

Below are some pictures of the sides, hope that someone can tell me where the fault is. To me it seems like a software problem, but I'm not sure.
Attachments
20161026_203940.jpg
20161026_203854.jpg

Jetguy
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Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 1:40 am

Re: Smooth sides.

Postby Jetguy » Wed Oct 26, 2016 8:05 pm

https://www.simplify3d.com/support/prin ... eshooting/

Specifically https://www.simplify3d.com/support/prin ... nd-ringing
Vibrations and Ringing

Ringing is a wavy pattern that may appear on the surface of your print due to printer vibrations or wobbling. Typically, you will notice this pattern when the extruder is making a sudden direction change, such as near a sharp corner. For example, if you were printing a 20mm cube, each time the extruder changes to printing a different face of the cube, it would need to change directions. The inertia of the extruder can create vibrations when these sudden direction changes occur, which will be visible of the print itself. We will look at the most common ways to address ringing, by examining each cause in the list below.

Printing too fast
The most common cause for ringing is that your printer is trying to move too fast. When the printer suddenly changes direction, these quick movements will create additional force that can cause the lingering vibrations. If you feel that your printer may be moving too fast, try to reduce the printing speed. To do this, click “Edit Process Settings” and select the Other tab. You will want to make adjustments to the “Default Printing Speed” and the “X/Y Axis Movement Speed”. The first controls the speed of any movements where the extruder is actively extruding plastic, while the second controls the speed of rapid movements where no plastic is being extruded. You may need to adjust both settings to see an effect.
Firmware acceleration
The firmware that runs on your 3D printer’s electronics typically implements acceleration controls to help prevent sudden direction changes. The acceleration settings will cause the printer to slowly ramp up in speed and then to slowly decelerate before changing directions. This functionality is vital for preventing ringing. If you are comfortable working with your printer’s firmware, you may even want to try decreasing the acceleration settings so that the speed changes more gradually. This can help reduce ringing even further.

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 3:54 am

Re: Smooth sides.

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Thu Oct 27, 2016 6:49 am

It is due to acceleration. When the print head stop moving at X and start moving at Y, it needs to be reduce the speed of X almost to 0 and raise the Y speed to the speed you set. When the speed changes it will leave mark. It is hard to avoid unless you decrease the printing speed to be very low at which the print head needs almost no acceleration when direction change.

BTW, is this side the bottom side of model?
4.png


The first few layers seems too close to the build plate. You'd better recheck the screw of Z height at the front corner.

And the lube, I recommend to wipe out all the origin lube then apply your new lube. In case they are not the same type.

OleRasmussen
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2016 6:31 pm

Re: Smooth sides.

Postby OleRasmussen » Thu Oct 27, 2016 8:16 am

Wow, thanks for the fast response!

The ring you've marked on the picture is indeed the bottom of the part.
I will try and reduce the printing speed an print ouy another 20X20 cube!:)

Imrageth
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2016 8:34 am

Re: Smooth sides.

Postby Imrageth » Thu Oct 27, 2016 8:39 am

I've had ringing issue as well but I was able to eliminate it completely.

I print inner wall at 60mm/s and outter at 40mm/s and add a gcode script to my printing profile:
M201 X600 Y600
This script reduces printer's acceleration and there is no ringing anymore :)

ABH
Posts: 85
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2016 7:31 pm

Re: Smooth sides.

Postby ABH » Fri Oct 28, 2016 8:30 pm

I'm not sure that this is ringing, It's difficult to see, as the light only reflects in the lower part of the foto.
If the striations are present all over the face with the same strength, and if the pitch is 0.8 mm, then it's problably the same "issue" as I have described here:
http://forum.raise3d.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=878&p=8363&hilit=vertical+stribes#p8363

chengl03
Posts: 91
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2016 12:32 am

Re: Smooth sides.

Postby chengl03 » Sun Aug 27, 2017 8:05 am

Hi Vicky, I have been having that problem in the picture of you post for some prints now. When I got the N2 plus printer, it printed out perfect prints but after some problems and fixing, the prints are now coming out like that in the picture on your post. I don't know if this is the cause, but I had to completely remove the heat bed and unscrew all the screws on the build platform. Basically I had to start from scratch on leveling the bed and add an insulation board. And I noticed I had to turn the z screw a lot to the point where the screw was almost not long enough to make it hit the stopper before the nozzle is not hitting the bed. I had re-level the bed to the almost perfect (dail-indicator method) and the z screw is set to almost perfect distance, but I still keep getting that problem. If I distance the z screw more, the nozzle will be too far from the bed and the first layer (raft) will not stick to the build tak.

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Smooth sides.

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Tue Aug 29, 2017 5:54 am

Which side do you have the problem? Bottom side?
Are you currently using Raft or not? Does the first several layers for Raft printed properly?

chengl03
Posts: 91
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2016 12:32 am

Re: Smooth sides.

Postby chengl03 » Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:50 am

Bottom of the model or to be more specific, the infill bottom solid part layers that is printed on top of the raft. Yes, I use raft. The raft actually prints fine. I don't have printed old rafts to compare if the now printing raft height is printing taller that may be causing the squish infill bottom solid layers.

Did some more research and came upon Skipping Steps on a website. From the description that resemble the closest to my problem (shown in picture) is the Skipping Steps, Marlin Configured Incorrectly topic. Where it descripe the problem as: First few layers of an object print malformed and squished. If you want to look at it, the website is: http://reprap.org/wiki/Print_Troublesho ... rial_Guide
So, is this the problem? I read how to correct it but don't know how to do it.

I have tried re-leveling multiple times, and z stop multiple times, the problem is still there. Sometimes it bad, sometimes it is not as bad.
Attachments
20170829_015204[1].jpg

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Smooth sides.

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:34 am

May I ask a picture which can see the bottom side of the model?

chengl03
Posts: 91
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2016 12:32 am

Re: Smooth sides.

Postby chengl03 » Wed Aug 30, 2017 7:12 am

Here's the picture of the bottom. I melted an area of the bottom to look inside. Since this print was bad this is junk right now. I have tried re-leveling, z stop, new lube multiple times and still it happens. The problem always changes ranging from just a two or three layers to 5 or more layers.
Attachments
20170830_020444[1].jpg

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Smooth sides.

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Thu Aug 31, 2017 6:45 am

I'd like to ask for the bottom side of the first few layers. So that I can see the contact surface of the first layer of the model with the Raft.
Just a thought, maybe the Raft gap to model is not proper.

chengl03
Posts: 91
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2016 12:32 am

Re: Smooth sides.

Postby chengl03 » Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:08 am

I'm sorry, I don't quite get what you mean. Do you want to see a picture of when the model is still intact with the raft? My first picture is the side of the model being printed from left to right of the model and second picture is the bottom and inside of the model.

My raft gap is set to default (0.20 mm). I thought the raft gap only effect the distance between the model and raft so it shouldn't affect the print layers of the model right? Also what is raft offset?
Last edited by chengl03 on Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

chengl03
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Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2016 12:32 am

Re: Smooth sides.

Postby chengl03 » Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:23 am

I got another defect print. This time I printed a different model that has a curve upward to the outside. Here are some pictures.
Attachments
20170831_021751[1].jpg
Model
20170831_021053[1].jpg
Model Close Up

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Smooth sides.

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:28 am

Does this only happen on the bottom side but not on higher sections? And every time the problem starts and ends at the same height?

chengl03
Posts: 91
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2016 12:32 am

Re: Smooth sides.

Postby chengl03 » Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:35 am

Yeah, somehow it only happens on the bottom side/layers then it prints great on the rest of the higher sections after that, and yes, it always appear at the same height.

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Smooth sides.

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Fri Sep 01, 2017 2:05 am

Would you like to PM the gcode file to me? Would like to check the structure.
And would you like to do a small test that drop the Top Solid Layer Fill Flowrate from 100% to 80% and check whether there has any difference?
And would you like to stay around the machine after Raft finished, and watch the printing?
Find whether the movement of Z direction has any abnormal when the problem layers start.

chengl03
Posts: 91
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2016 12:32 am

Re: Smooth sides.

Postby chengl03 » Fri Sep 01, 2017 5:28 am

Vicky, I will do what you suggested over this weekend, don't have enough time on weekdays because of work. I will get those to you asap next week.

chengl03
Posts: 91
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2016 12:32 am

Re: Smooth sides.

Postby chengl03 » Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:33 am

Vicky, so over the weekended, the problem isn't as visible anymore or maybe its just cause I'm printing with transparent orange pla and it isn't that visible. Anyway I adjusted the default printing speed from 50 to 45, and bottom solid infill speed from 60 to 50. After I finish printing with the transparent orange pla, I'll go to the solid color pla and see if it is still happening. If it is still happening after I print on the solid pla, I'll PM you the gcode file. After my adjusted speed settings, I stayed around to watch after raft finished printing, and it seems to print ok for now.

chengl03
Posts: 91
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2016 12:32 am

Re: Smooth sides.

Postby chengl03 » Fri Sep 08, 2017 6:18 am

Hi Vicky, so after I put the new solid color standard Raise3D pla for printing, it happened again. I have PM you the gcode for it. Here are some close up pictures of it. The model is still attach to the raft. I stopped the print when I came back to check on it because the problem appeared again.

This is just my guess but it seems to happen more if I print a wider/larger model because I have printed 7 thinner model same height as the one printed with the problem and they printed great. Which I don't know what is causing it.
Attachments
20170908_005622[1].jpg
20170908_011645[1].jpg
20170908_005720[1].jpg
20170908_005651[1].jpg
Raft below, Model on top


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