New Acceleration and Jerk settings

Discussions about ideaMaker and other printing software.
maugseros
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Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2016 7:56 pm

New Acceleration and Jerk settings

Postby maugseros » Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:55 pm

When I first got my N2 a couple years ago, right out of the bat I was getting some pretty bad ringing around corners and surface details on my prints. I finally was able to practically eliminate this by setting the Outer Shell Speed to 12 mm/s and the Inner Shell Speed to 20 mm/s. This is about half the speed of the defaults.

I had seen in other forums with other slicing software that acceleration and jerk were two setting one can use to reduce or eliminate ringing, but not knowing how to manually insert these settings into the Gcode, so was stuck with just printing the outer shells at half default speed. This obviously slows down the printing process, but it was the only way I could find to eliminate the ringing.

Now with the new release of Ideamaker 3.1 they've added the ability to adjust the acceleration and jerk.

So has anyone experimented with different settings for acceleration/jerk vs. shell printing speeds to achieve high quality prints without ringing, and what settings did you use?

zemlin
Posts: 297
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2017 2:02 pm

Re: New Acceleration and Jerk settings

Postby zemlin » Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:00 pm

I generally run 60mm/s overall.
30mm/s for outer perimeters and solid infill.
1600 mm/s^2 X & Y accel
12 XY Jerk
5000 mm/s^2 extruder accel
5000 Extruder jerk.

I get a little ringing, but overall parts look pretty darn good with these settings.

I have this in my start script
M201 X1600 Y1600 E5000 ; acceleration
M205 X12 E5000 ; jerk

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Noren
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Re: New Acceleration and Jerk settings

Postby Noren » Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:45 pm

The default jerk and acceleration settings in ideamaker. Are the values that are default there calibrated to our printers? I guess it’s not the same for my N1 as for the N2’a?
Or do I have to calibrate the values? And if so how?

zemlin
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Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2017 2:02 pm

Re: New Acceleration and Jerk settings

Postby zemlin » Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:00 pm

Noren wrote:Or do I have to calibrate the values? And if so how?

It's not the sort of thing that has one right answer. Speed, acceleration, and jerk have a big impact on build times, part quality and appearance. You need to find the balance point for your prints and what's most important to you. For me it's been trial and error to settle on values that work well for me. I'm not going to claim that these are the best settings, but they work for me.

Squenz
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Location: Stuttgart/Germany

Re: New Acceleration and Jerk settings

Postby Squenz » Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:33 pm

zemlin wrote:
Noren wrote:Or do I have to calibrate the values? And if so how?

It's not the sort of thing that has one right answer. Speed, acceleration, and jerk have a big impact on build times, part quality and appearance. You need to find the balance point for your prints and what's most important to you. For me it's been trial and error to settle on values that work well for me. I'm not going to claim that these are the best settings, but they work for me.



I started a print about an hour ago and thought, well i'm gonna try these settings, just for the sake of it and see how it goes.

Print is not done yet, but i like what i see and hear on my N1 with Bondtech DualDirect. Thank you !!

ABH
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Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2016 7:31 pm

Re: New Acceleration and Jerk settings

Postby ABH » Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:32 pm

It is also possible to set a lower acceleration for the outermost perimeter (outer shell).
This can be done by using a Post Processing Script in the slicer.

This is the script I use in Simplify3D for setting 400 mm/s² for the outermost perimeter and 1000 mm/s² for other line types:

{REPLACE "; outer perimeter\n" "; outer perimeter\nM204 P400\n"}
{REPLACE "; inner perimeter\n" "; inner perimeter\nM204 P1000\n"}
{REPLACE "; solid layer\n" "; solid layer\nM204 P1000\n"}
{REPLACE "; infill\n" "; infill\nM204 P1000\n"}

M204 changes the default acceleration, so you need all four code lines above to set and revert the acceleration.
M205 can be used in the same way for defining a different jerk setting for the outer perimeter, but I use the standard jerk setting of 12 mm/s for all line types.

The script can not be used for ideaMaker, as the strings for the different print lines have different names, but I think a similar script can be made for ideaMaker.

zemlin
Posts: 297
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2017 2:02 pm

Re: New Acceleration and Jerk settings

Postby zemlin » Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:51 pm

ABH wrote:{REPLACE "; outer perimeter\n" "; outer perimeter\nM204 P400\n"}
{REPLACE "; inner perimeter\n" "; inner perimeter\nM204 P1000\n"}
{REPLACE "; solid layer\n" "; solid layer\nM204 P1000\n"}
{REPLACE "; infill\n" "; infill\nM204 P1000\n"}

Very cool. I was not aware of this. Cranking the the accel up for infill and support could save a lot of time on some of my builds without impacting appearance or integrity. I assume Jerk can be set the same way. I have a 30 hour build running now and have a second part to run when it's finished. I'll give this a shot to cut the build time.

Squenz
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Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2017 11:18 pm
Location: Stuttgart/Germany

Re: New Acceleration and Jerk settings

Postby Squenz » Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:13 pm

Ideamaker also allows to adjust several Acc- and Jerk settings in the current version.

maugseros
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Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2016 7:56 pm

Re: New Acceleration and Jerk settings

Postby maugseros » Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:17 pm

Noren wrote:The default jerk and acceleration settings in ideamaker. Are the values that are default there calibrated to our printers? I guess it’s not the same for my N1 as for the N2’a?
Or do I have to calibrate the values? And if so how?


It appears that when you check to turn on accelration/jerk control that 1000 mm/s is the default and 12 mm/s for the jerk. I don't know if these are the setting the printer uses if you don't enable acceleration/jerk control or not?

I've doubled the speed I have typically been printing the outer and inner shell at but set the inner shell/outer shell acceleration to 500 mm/s and the inner shell jerk and outer shell jerk to 8 mm/s and am doing a print right now. The over print time has been drastically reduced, but I'll have to compare the print to a previous print to see if there is any ringing problems at the corners or not.

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Noren
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Re: New Acceleration and Jerk settings

Postby Noren » Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:19 pm

An answer from Raise3D in their Facebook group stated that the default values for jerk and acceleration are optimised for the machines. Do you think that is the case? Or is it just a number that should work ok for the most?

EldRick
Posts: 277
Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2017 5:55 am

Re: New Acceleration and Jerk settings

Postby EldRick » Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:54 pm

I'd personally be interested in how to set these parameters when a Bondtech extruder is installed, removing almost two pounds of moving mass.
I've currently got xy Jerk arbitrarily set to 16.

ABH
Posts: 169
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2016 7:31 pm

Re: New Acceleration and Jerk settings

Postby ABH » Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:57 pm

Default acceleration in the raw Marlin firmware is set to 3000 mm/s² and default jerk speed is set to 20 mm/s.
Raise3D defined default acceleration to 1000 mm/s² and jerk speed to 12 mm/s in their version of the motion controller firmware for N-series printers. These settings are unchanged from the very start of the N-series printers.
So, in that sense Raise3D optimized acceleration and jerk speed to these machines, and I would say they prioritized print quality over speed.
They probably also limited the accelerations to be aligned with the capabilities of the mechanical system (servo motors, friction in system, moving masses etc.)

maugseros
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Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2016 7:56 pm

Re: New Acceleration and Jerk settings

Postby maugseros » Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:45 pm

So far I've printed the same part using my standard 12 mm/s outer shell speed and 20 mm/s inner shell speed and then printing again upping the outer shell speed to 24 and the inner speed to 40, but setting the outer and inner shell acceleration to 500 mm/s and the outer and inner shell jerk to 8 mm/s.

By comparison, this is not a part with a lot of small detail, but in both prints any ringing is almost unnoticeable. If it wasn't printed in black, which is kind of glossy by nature, the ringing would probably be totally unnoticeable at all. However, the one difference I can find is that by reducing the acceleration and jerk to the amounts I did, the corners of the part are not quite as sharp as they are without using the acceleration/jerk controls. It's almost like instead of being a near perfect corner, their is ever so slightly a radius at the corner. But the effect is rather small, unless I was trying to print the most perfect version I could of a part, I would consider this small radius at the corners acceptable. I probably only notice it because I'm looking for it.

The plus side is that my print time for this part was cut by around 40+%.. it was around 11 hours, and upping the print speed/lowering the acceleration/jerk settings.. the time to print was dropped to just under 6 hours.

I'm printing another part now that originally had a print time of around 16-17 hours, and the reported time to print now is saying just over 11. So the print time savings seems to vary, but it's definitely significant.

I'll report back when I am able to print out some smaller more detailed parts.


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