Feature request for internal support or infill when needed.

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Noren
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Feature request for internal support or infill when needed.

Postby Noren » Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:08 pm

I noticed that some models that I print could easily print with next to no infill if it hadn't been for some specific parts. Often parts that start before the top layer. Those parts doesnt have anything to rest on.

Would it be possible to set internal supports. Autogenerated or manual?
Or to get "smart infill" that are denser only there it needs to be?

Does any slicer have this kind of function?

For example: this small part on top of this cube requires a high amount of infill to get something to "land" on.
But the cube itself is small enough to finish the top part with bridging without support.
How does one solve this?
Skärmavbild 2018-02-08 kl. 13.07.04.png

Daws
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Re: Feature request for internal support or infill when needed.

Postby Daws » Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:45 am

I have been thinking along the same lines. A cube could be printed with almost no support until it gets close to the top surface, then the support could form at an angle to support the upper surface. It would also be good to be able to locally increase support density in certain areas like around holes where a fastener will pass though the part and there is a high level of clamping force - could use more walls but that will affect the whole model. Maybe this feature exists and I haven't found it yet.

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Noren
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Re: Feature request for internal support or infill when needed.

Postby Noren » Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:33 am

It just struck me that we do have dense support layers. Why not have dense infill layers?
That way we can have quite a small amount of infill up until its needed and we get dense infill layers before the prints need more support for finer details or small parts that otherwise wouldn't been supported by the small amount of infill.

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Feature request for internal support or infill when needed.

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:20 am

Notes taken. Will ask software team to take a look which way can support the top solid layers better.

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Noren
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Re: Feature request for internal support or infill when needed.

Postby Noren » Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:22 am

Vicky@Raise3D wrote:Notes taken. Will ask software team to take a look which way can support the top solid layers better.


Thanks as always Vicky :)

Do other slicers have this kind of functionality or would it be a "first"?

Squenz
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Re: Feature request for internal support or infill when needed.

Postby Squenz » Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:42 am

I don't know if my findings qualify as a feature, but i saw the other day, when printing the kobayashi maru fidget cube (found on thingiverse), the Infill is not created by looking at each individual part of this cube, but it is a global pattern which seem to be layed across the outer boundaries and then attaching the shells afterwards. This leads to funny infill where the infill is about one mm away from inner shell and then there's no diagonal infill at all created before the next inner shell comes. The Infill should be created looking at the boundaries of every individual area and starting in the center of this area instead. I don't think it's an bug either, the Infill is just created on wrong inital base.

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1269699 sliced with 12% Infill


Image

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Noren
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Re: Feature request for internal support or infill when needed.

Postby Noren » Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:45 am

Thats my understanding as well. The infill pattern is "global" and does not look at the structure of each part. I really think that infill should be "centered" in each part and be optimised for the internal structure.

maugseros
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Re: Feature request for internal support or infill when needed.

Postby maugseros » Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:20 pm

I also think it would be nice to have various ways to adjust the infill. One to have a solution for the problem you are having Noren. I've come accross that problem before and I've had to print the entire thing with a much higher infill than would otherwise be necessary, just to have some features of the print to have something to "land on" as you describe.

Another problem I have is sometimes I might have like a cube that could be printed with minimal infill, but then off the top of the cube extends a feature (like lets say a cylinder) and I might want the cylinder printed at 100% infill (for strength or maybe I will be cutting threads into it) yet the entire part doesn't need to have 100% infill. So it would be nice to be able to adjust the percentage of infill in some manor. Like 0-20% (or maybe 0 to layer 140, or whatever) has 15% infill, but then from 20.1% to 100% (or layer 141 to the end) would be 100% infill.

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Noren
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Re: Feature request for internal support or infill when needed.

Postby Noren » Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:20 pm

I really think this should be “smarter” though than how Simplify 3D has solved it by setting multiple processes. Like 10% infill to layer X. And 40% for the rest.

But I also think that every parameter that you can change in ideamaker should be able to change after x numbers of layers/mm.
Why wouldn’t we be able to change infill, shell numbers, temp etc during the print?

maugseros
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Re: Feature request for internal support or infill when needed.

Postby maugseros » Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:24 pm

Noren wrote:I really think this should be “smarter” though than how Simplify 3D has solved it by setting multiple processes. Like 10% infill to layer X. And 40% for the rest.

But I also think that every parameter that you can change in ideamaker should be able to change after x numbers of layers/mm.
Why wouldn’t we be able to change infill, shell numbers, temp etc during the print?


Agreed

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Feature request for internal support or infill when needed.

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:11 am

Noren wrote:
Vicky@Raise3D wrote:Notes taken. Will ask software team to take a look which way can support the top solid layers better.


Thanks as always Vicky :)

Do other slicers have this kind of functionality or would it be a "first"?


I haven't heard about this before.
With the current version of ideaMaker, you can increase the infill density by layer to the layers approaching to solid layers. But it cannot be set by regional on some layers based on the features' structures by now.

Hangry Jason
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Re: Feature request for internal support or infill when needed.

Postby Hangry Jason » Sat Feb 17, 2018 7:01 pm

Noren wrote:I noticed that some models that I print could easily print with next to no infill if it hadn't been for some specific parts. Often parts that start before the top layer. Those parts doesnt have anything to rest on.

Would it be possible to set internal supports. Autogenerated or manual?
Or to get "smart infill" that are denser only there it needs to be?

Does any slicer have this kind of function?

For example: this small part on top of this cube requires a high amount of infill to get something to "land" on.
But the cube itself is small enough to finish the top part with bridging without support.
How does one solve this?
Skärmavbild 2018-02-08 kl. 13.07.04.png


Makerbot created dynamic infill for their slicer called MinFill, they are the only company I’m aware of (as a hobbyist) that has done so. Sadly I had lost faith in them and quit using my Rep2 long before they came out with it so I don’t know how well it works.

I’ve always been curious why no one has ever made a sparse infill that is just basically the same as standard support material, but internally instead of externally. It wouldn’t be as strong as infill, but would use less plastic and print a little faster I would think. Perfect for quick models and prints that don’t need to be strong.

My current solution when I have a model I want to print hollow but have unsupported areas like yours, is I switch back to simplify3d and setup multiple processes. I will print completely hollow until a few layers before an unsupported area, then I’ll turn on infill until that section is printed, then set it back to hollow. I’m still new to IdeaMaker so I don’t know if it supports this. I have a YouTube time lapse showing my friends head printing with this technique once it gets to the mouth at about 30ish seconds in if you want to see it. The clip was mostly made for fun, and I still didnt have my printer tuned well/fixed at the time, so its not a good example of print quiality if anyone watches it for that, lol

https://youtu.be/dXnYjmGFbNE

Also heres a video about Minfill. I absolutely hate makerbot, and tell everyone I know to never ever support that company, but this is one thing they've done that I hope other companies quickly reverse engineer. (Hint Hint Raise team ;) )

https://youtu.be/-NAnRr-33UE

Edit: Sorry, just noticed you already mentioned the multiple processes in S3D a few replies down, I'll leave this here anyways for the heck of it ;)

Rudolph
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Re: Feature request for internal support or infill when needed.

Postby Rudolph » Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:23 pm

Slic3r PE is a bit smarter to add infill where needed: https://github.com/prusa3d/Slic3r/releases

Squenz
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Re: Feature request for internal support or infill when needed.

Postby Squenz » Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:59 pm

Noren wrote:.... Like 10% infill to layer X. And 40% for the rest.

...


I found out, Ideamaker does this already in the "per Layer settings". Unfortunately, it's a kinda hidden gem, and one has to remember there was part with "special" settings, but overall this secret weapon is a very mighty one.


The overall creation of the infill pattern is, as described above, still off but these options help to let the machine built what i would like to do a lot more than before i found these new-to-me options.


Great work !! !! !!

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Noren
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Re: Feature request for internal support or infill when needed.

Postby Noren » Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:05 pm

Squenz wrote:
Noren wrote:.... Like 10% infill to layer X. And 40% for the rest.

...


I found out, Ideamaker does this already in the "per Layer settings". Unfortunately, it's a kinda hidden gem, and one has to remember there was part with "special" settings, but overall this secret weapon is a very mighty one.


The overall creation of the infill pattern is, as described above, still off but these options help to let the machine built what i would like to do a lot more than before i found these new-to-me options.


Great work !! !! !!


Care to explain how it works or link to some information about this. I do not really grasp how the settings work there.

Squenz
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Re: Feature request for internal support or infill when needed.

Postby Squenz » Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:14 pm

Sorry, i have a print to prepare and just about an hour time left right now.

Just poke around and take a look at the options which are offered, it's pretty much self explaning.

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Re: Feature request for internal support or infill when needed.

Postby Squenz » Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:37 pm

Ok, now i have some time before hitting the sack. In the first windows which opens after hitting the start slicing button, there are two more tabs to be found above the center window, one is group and layer settings, the second is per-model extruder. When you go over to groun and layers, there are two tabs on the right side, one is per-group, the other is per-layer. If you go to per-layer, you can hit the "+" button and there's a minimal set of settings shown, originating values from the main template chosen at the main-template tab. You better set the heights where you want this setup to work at first, or it can become confusing. If you want to change settings multiple times, you better create a full set of from - to heights to begin with. Works similiar as if you'd enter a temperature contril list in the slicer settings.

If you want to change a setting which is on-screen now, you can directly go into the field and change value, if you want to change something else, set the cursor into the settings (1, 2 or 3 or so) and hit the "pen"-button. A new windows opens up, with just the layer height shown, i.e., if you want to change infill from 5 to 20 percent, hit the add settings button, chose which parameter you want to add in the list and hit ok. Unfortunaltely, these added settings are not displayed in the small main settings window, but they are there and are computed upon slicing. this way you can work your way through the built height of your part with numerous options and they all are added and computed when you hit the slice button.

Works like charm, from zero to 80 percent infill, printing a part with hard to print-in-acceptable-time 5mm radii at the bottom and at the top, printing at 0.1 layer height first and last 5mm and 0.33 LH inbetween, adding 5 percent more infill on each setting to give the top layers something to lay upon, you get the drift.

That's a serious game-changer, but you have to remember, after your print is sliced, you have to store them settings away and then delete it, or the next print will have the whole set applied also.

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Noren
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Re: Feature request for internal support or infill when needed.

Postby Noren » Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:41 pm

Thanks for your clarification. This is rather huge. But needs a good UI. :)

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Re: Feature request for internal support or infill when needed.

Postby jean-claude » Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:47 am

Vicky@Raise3D wrote:...
With the current version of ideaMaker, you can increase the infill density by layer to the layers approaching to solid layers
....


Hi,
Please tell me, how do you do it (I mean in a different way than the one described by SQUENZ) ?
Thanks Vicky
ps: I think too NOREN's suggestion is excellent ! even if the SQUENZ's way work but on the global zone !

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Feature request for internal support or infill when needed.

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:25 am

The way I mentioned above is the same as the way Squenz explained.
Attached the link of release note of version 3.0 before, which includes some examples inside how to start with per-layer and per-group settings.
viewtopic.php?t=4154


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