Travel moves through open parts

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NewGuy
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Location: Krakow, Poland

Travel moves through open parts

Postby NewGuy » Mon Aug 07, 2017 4:33 pm

Hi all,

I have a question that is really going to show my gaps in my knowledge. I am trying to print an inner flexible socket for a friend who is a below knee amputee. In the gcode, you can see that there are a lot of travel moves across the open parts of the socket. Why does it not print in a spiral motion and is there a way to make it do that? I have tried the spiral vase mode in iM but it didn't do anything. Is there a way around this or is it like this for a good reason? The reason I want this is because I am using ninjaflex, and anytime I enable retraction something screws up. The last print has these thin strings and blobs all over the inside (where she is going to placing her limb) and I need that part to be as smooth as possible. Again, this is something I do not know a lot about, so any help will be helpful.
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gcode pit.PNG
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jmp
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Re: Travel moves through open parts

Postby jmp » Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:40 pm

This model can't be printed in spiral mode because the tops of the sides aren't connected. I haven't printed with Ninjaflex myself so maybe someone with experience with that material can give some advice.
RL Name: Jason Preuss Thingiverse: JMP Youtube:http://youtube.com/c/patterntoprint Website: http://www.patterntoprint.com

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 3:54 am

Re: Travel moves through open parts

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Tue Aug 08, 2017 6:12 am

Try this option, not sure whether can totally help you, but it can reduce a lot nozzle movement inside the model.
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NewGuy
Posts: 39
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2016 4:01 pm
Location: Krakow, Poland

Re: Travel moves through open parts

Postby NewGuy » Wed Aug 09, 2017 3:59 pm

Unfortunately, that didn't help a whole lot. I guess it is just the geometry of the print that forces these movements. I suppose I could just grind down the inside a bit to make sure it is now cutting up her leg. Thanks for the suggestions everyone.

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Mecha_Monster
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Location: Mexico
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Re: Travel moves through open parts

Postby Mecha_Monster » Wed Aug 09, 2017 4:05 pm

Maybe you can try to set a fixed point for layer change. By default the printer will seek the nearest point

NewGuy
Posts: 39
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Location: Krakow, Poland

Re: Travel moves through open parts

Postby NewGuy » Wed Aug 09, 2017 4:28 pm

I'm not sure how to do that exactly. I am using ideaMaker right now, but also have profiles set up in Cura. Is one better than the other for a change like this?

mredicker
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Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:28 pm

Re: Travel moves through open parts

Postby mredicker » Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:07 pm

Just an idea here that I can not say has any proven test behind it, but here goes anyway.

You might try designing in breakaway filler pieces to continue the circular shape all the way up to the top. Then the "avoid traveling through holes" might work for you. If this does not make sense I can try to make a quick sketch and post it.

NewGuy
Posts: 39
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2016 4:01 pm
Location: Krakow, Poland

Re: Travel moves through open parts

Postby NewGuy » Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:30 pm

mredicker wrote:You might try designing in breakaway filler pieces to continue the circular shape all the way up to the top. Then the "avoid traveling through holes" might work for you. If this does not make sense I can try to make a quick sketch and post it.


Hey mredicker,

Do you mean to continue building the model up to the highest point, but make the now open parts thin and support like (as in easy to break away)? That could be a very good idea. I just don't know how exactly to set it up. I suppose I will be doing some experimenting today.

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walshlg
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Re: Travel moves through open parts

Postby walshlg » Wed Aug 16, 2017 4:19 pm

no, add on a throwaway piece, eg a cylinder outside the build piece, also select a point on that for force layer change.

NewGuy
Posts: 39
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Location: Krakow, Poland

Re: Travel moves through open parts

Postby NewGuy » Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:15 pm

Seems like a lot of filament to waste...

Jetguy
Posts: 1653
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 1:40 am

Re: Travel moves through open parts

Postby Jetguy » Sat Aug 19, 2017 1:57 am

Throwing away several prints because they are unusable VS a tiny fraction of nothing used in a purge tower and claiming that's waste of filament?

NewGuy
Posts: 39
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2016 4:01 pm
Location: Krakow, Poland

Re: Travel moves through open parts

Postby NewGuy » Sun Aug 20, 2017 8:34 pm

I wouldn't call these prints "unusable". I just used a dremel to smooth out the inside (10 min work). Just wondering if there was a quick fix that I wasn't aware of.

Jetguy
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Re: Travel moves through open parts

Postby Jetguy » Sun Aug 20, 2017 11:29 pm

"add on a throwaway piece, eg a cylinder outside the build piece, also select a point on that for force layer change."
"Seems like a lot of filament to waste..."

This is no different than dual extrusion purge walls and wipe towers.

Here's how you got here:
"Just wondering if there was a quick fix that I wasn't aware of."
Answer- yes, the group gave you the "quick fix" by adding a sacrificial object to prevent the random transition all while still living in the limitations of the "free" slicer you are using Ideamaker.
Your response to the "quick fix" was, "Seems like a lot of filament to waste..."

Again, the response stands:
Keep using Ideamaker and due to the limited settings you are likely to get the strings and general poor surface finish
Use or buy a different slicing software that has more control and settings to prevent crossing
Use a tiny bit more filament and use a sacrificial tower object that improves surface finish dramatically

I'm sorry that an answer doesn't exist that doesn't involve increased cost (buying software or using more filament) but there are some limitations to 3D printing.

Jetguy
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Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 1:40 am

Re: Travel moves through open parts

Postby Jetguy » Mon Aug 21, 2017 12:08 am

I'm, just trying to make sure that the actual suggestion is being conveyed and understood as I do want to help you and do want to see you get better prints.

#1 you are either not understanding how little waste we are talking about - this implies you really didn't understand the suggestion and size of the tower and what actual filament cost for something like that is.
or
#2 your perspective on amount of waste is way off. In other words, any waste is "too much" waste.

Again, I just want to see you print better, but I feel that your response- shows me you think it's too much filament and blew off the answer.
If that's the case, let's expand upon it, teach you more about it.

Jetguy
Posts: 1653
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 1:40 am

Re: Travel moves through open parts

Postby Jetguy » Mon Aug 21, 2017 12:52 am

Again, just want to share some lessons.
#1 Spiral vase mode ONLY works on a solid object (not hollowed) that has a uniform height as well. In other words, if your STL already has a vase or cup like shape open at one end- Vase mode will not work because your STL has an inner and outer shell wall thickness. Spiral vase mode only creates a single layer outline and will not do a "thick wall". Vase mode could be a whole topic in and of itself. There is just that much about it to teach about what works and what doesn't.

#2 TPU in general is a stringy material and all the retraction you can safely use without jams may still not prevent strings. In fact, increasing retraction distances is probably best avoided. Bottom line- there may be strings.

#3 Prints in TPU that have a lot of retraction might also get delayed extrusion and leave gaps and a less than ideal print in both surface finish and overall strength. This is a trade off point. If you increase retraction- that may cause more problems than it solves and cause failed extrusion starts on the layer and gaps and thus missing strength in the final part. Worst case, you get jams and failed prints mid way.

#4 Because of #2 and #3, using a sacrificial tower or object and putting the strings and reducing retraction to get a better print might be a better choice. The idea is make a stronger part, better layers and bond, leave the strings that are going to be there no matter what not interfere and put all in one place that is easier to manage and cleanup and doesn't affect usage. Again, there are times where compromise has to be made, and you might be forced to use no retraction and live with strings but in a controlled location by using an added external tower like object.

#5 you might also just find out the limits of free slicing software and sometimes you have projects that you need more control over the gcode path creation and that's where alternatives start weighing in the pros and cons and cost. Example, you can use a bunch of different slicers- be it Cura, Slic3r, Simplify 3D, Matter Control, and I'm sure I'm leaving off others. The tradoff is, the free ones- you may have to know gcode, setup a custom profile edit start and end code and other details. Paid slicers like Simplify 3D have profiles and support- but cost money for the license. If you try a control or setting in Ideamaker and it doesn't work, you have every right to make a request to add or change a feature- but that may not help or resolve an immediate project need. There are just times where a simple free slicer may not do exactly what you want and need it to do.


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