Lift Nozzle Option

Discussions about ideaMaker and other printing software.
dd123c5
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Jul 31, 2017 4:01 pm

Lift Nozzle Option

Postby dd123c5 » Mon Jul 31, 2017 4:04 pm

Hello everyone i have been playing around with ideamaker and i am enjoying it but i have one question i am trying to print a max build size print with a very very small tip and the top is there any way to make the nozzle lift away from the print for a set amount of time or the remainder of the layer time to let the layer cool i have about 40-60 layers i would need this to happen for.

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Vicky@Raise3D
Posts: 2248
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 3:54 am

Re: Lift Nozzle Option

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Tue Aug 01, 2017 8:31 am

Both X & Y directions of the model are the max size of the printer size?

Jetguy
Posts: 1606
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 1:40 am

Re: Lift Nozzle Option

Postby Jetguy » Tue Aug 01, 2017 12:46 pm

What the user is requesting is a method of controlling latent heat in the small area of a 3D printed layer as some other slicers support.
That is, when a layer takes less than a specified time to print (total distance times a minimum speed), the nozzle would move well away from the print layer in XYZ to allow the layer to cool and then come back after a dwell time and print the next layer.
Let me show you an example from the S3D quality guide of the problem situation.
https://www.simplify3d.com/support/prin ... verheating
Over-Heating.jpg


So here lies the problem with the specifics of the request in broad general terms.
#1 The extruder must retract the filament more than normal retract- more like a toolchange retract to reduce ooze while parked. This does not eliminate all ooze. As such, there will be a drip or tail from the nozzle as it comes back to print the next layer.
#2 this causes entrance and exit travel moves to the print area causing defects in the side of the print. Coupled with the above ooze, this will leave marks in the print.
#3 if you do a Z lift, you may get vertical marks on the print as the retract and travel move goes upwards.

So in general, this has been an ill advised method of handling small pointy objects being printed. I know the user is requesting this, but I have been on both sides of this for years and having seen this debate dozens of times since 2009. It simply does not work as well as you might hope. Further, not all slicers support this method of moving away to counter minimum layer time.

So let's talk about the specifics of Raise 3D both hardware and software.
#1 No, Ideamaker does not support this method of cooling where the slicer creates travel moves to a parking distance away from the small printed object layer.
#2 what it and most slicers support is minimum layer time meaning that it slows the feed rate down so the nozzle always takes a minimum time. The problem with this method is that on a tiny cone or pointy tip, each layer is so small that radiated heat from the nozzle moving extra slow to follow the minimum layer time makes it worse, not better. Again, what happens in this tab is that if a layer is so small that it would print in less than 15 seconds at the normal feed rates, then the slicer slows all extrusion moves down to a minimum speed of 10mm/s. The problem may be that 10mm/s is slow enough that the latent heat from the nozzle may cause more problems than this slowdown helps.
Ideamaker cooling tab.jpg

#3 At the hardware level, the stock Raise 3D dual extruder systems use a duct that shares the same extruder cold end cooling fan to provide some airflow for cooling the layer. However, due to limitations of the duct and total airflow, a tiny pointy tower like object is not getting much directed airflow from the nozzle. Again, this is specific to Dual extruders. If you have a single extruder model, then you also should have an additional 50mm fan and duct mounted partially in the space where the second extruder hotend would be. This aids in this layer cooling situation since that fan can and does actually direct airflow at the printed layer- even on an extra small pointy layer.
#4 There are a number of threads and objects on thingiverse about adding a blower or cooling fan and printed duct for dual extruder models.
#4 The recommended answer is to either add 2 or more copies of the object to thus intentionally move the nozzle away while also not parking the nozzle and getting resulting ooze problems, or, the other way is to add a small tower object the same height to the build to achieve the same method.

Jetguy
Posts: 1606
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 1:40 am

Re: Lift Nozzle Option

Postby Jetguy » Tue Aug 01, 2017 12:58 pm

Here is a video on the topic as well "How to fix over heated 3D prints with a sacrificial tower " https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfCtAMZmofc

There are mods and alternate cooling ducts in the STL shared post viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8&hilit=cooling+duct#p15
This is one by SteveWallin and is a remix of one by Socke viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8&p=14029&hilit=cooling+duct#p14029
IMG_6178.JPG
IMG_6178.JPG (21.05 KiB) Viewed 178 times


You have a few ways forward.
#1 just print multiples of the same object to achieve the same effect for minimum layer time.
#2 add a small tower object to the build plate as described in the video
#3 add a cooling duct or blower as outlined in the shared STL files or one of a dozen other cooling duct posts.
#4 Use an alternate slicer that supports your desired method of moving away for minimum layer time to create your print files.
Attachments
IMG_6178.JPG
IMG_6178.JPG (21.05 KiB) Viewed 178 times

EldRick
Posts: 92
Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2017 5:55 am

Re: Lift Nozzle Option

Postby EldRick » Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:19 pm

Great answer!

dd123c5
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Jul 31, 2017 4:01 pm

Re: Lift Nozzle Option

Postby dd123c5 » Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:43 pm

thanks for all the ideas and suggestions guys i will try all of them and work on it thanks again.


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