Urgent fix needed

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JohnSays
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Location: Saint Petersburg, FL

Urgent fix needed

Postby JohnSays » Tue May 09, 2017 6:04 pm

I think I need to make this more clear and mark it urgent. I posted this in the change request catagory but I think it will get more visibility here.

I consider the recent change to the LCD firmware a huge step backwards and urgent to fix. Specifically, the heat to the nozzle is terminated each time a Load or Unload or stop takes place. The added time is killing me. I am experimenting with new filaments and moving reels on and off the machine and rerunning the calibration tests over and over. This in itself is a very long and arduous process. Consider this:

Set heat to unload current filament
Wait
Unload filament
Set heat to load new filament
Wait
Load filament
Observe that nozzle should be cleaned with cleaner filament
Stop load
Set heat to unload
Wait
Unload
Set heat to load cleaning filament
Wait
Load cleaning filament
Stop load
Set heat to unload cleaning filament
Wait
Unload filament
Set heat to load previously loaded filament
Wait
Press "Load" filament
The N2 exits the process unexpectedly on its own (this happened to me today without me touching anything)
Re-set heat to load previously loaded filament
Wait
Stop load process
Set heat to print
Wait
Print object
Find out z-height needs adjustment
Press Stop
Set heat again
Wait
Restart print

You see the trend. No matter how fast I am to set the heat again it has dropped 20C minimum. But the problem is that it will continue to fall until the firmware can get a handle on how fast to raise it back in range. Of course, that is if I remembered, elsewise it drops right to about 50C inside of a minute. Then, of course, the wait times increase dramatically.

Please fix this on an urgent basis. If others want the heat turned off each time they touch the machine, then add an option for those who use it to produce. The added time to print an object on top of all the other time it takes is not just frustrating, it is an income killer and general stressor.

------------------
John Welch
- John
2 Raise3D N2 Duals, V2 nozzles, Bondtech BMGs, and adjustable table

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Urgent fix needed

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Wed May 10, 2017 3:47 am

If you want to load and unload for several time, this logic seems does waste some time.
But we still want to keep it. It will be much safer, if others do not use load and unload such frequently in short time. But forget close heating for very long time.
Option is a good suggestion. Will advise our engineers about this.

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JohnSays
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Location: Saint Petersburg, FL

Re: Urgent fix needed

Postby JohnSays » Wed May 10, 2017 1:57 pm

It is not just for lots of changes. It is for just trying to print. Let's say that, like right now, I am loading filament prior to a print job. Right after I load the filament I want to print. I cannot. I have to once again set the heat. That is just wrong. Is there some safety issue that has come up as a problem? In other words, are you solving an actual problem or an imagined one?
- John
2 Raise3D N2 Duals, V2 nozzles, Bondtech BMGs, and adjustable table

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jmp
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Re: Urgent fix needed

Postby jmp » Wed May 10, 2017 3:45 pm

JohnSays wrote:It is not just for lots of changes. It is for just trying to print. Let's say that, like right now, I am loading filament prior to a print job. Right after I load the filament I want to print. I cannot. I have to once again set the heat. That is just wrong. Is there some safety issue that has come up as a problem? In other words, are you solving an actual problem or an imagined one?


In defense of Raise 3D turning the heat off after a filament load is how my non Raise 3D printers work. I also got a phone call once right after I unloaded filament after a print and the hot end was on for over a day before I realized it so it is something that happens. Personally if possible I would love to see a timer on this, keep them heated for say 5 minutes and if there isn't additional action then turn them off.
RL Name: Jason Preuss Thingiverse: JMP Youtube:http://youtube.com/c/patterntoprint Website: http://www.patterntoprint.com

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JohnSays
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Location: Saint Petersburg, FL

Re: Urgent fix needed

Postby JohnSays » Wed May 10, 2017 5:34 pm

I like that idea and I can see from your example the need to have some sort of protection. I'd like to be able to set a timer from 0 to 60 minutes. I often leave my machine heated while I prepare another file to print. I usually reduce the heat to the nozzle by 60 or so degrees to not carbonize the filament. I do this if I will be more than a few minutes.
- John
2 Raise3D N2 Duals, V2 nozzles, Bondtech BMGs, and adjustable table

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Urgent fix needed

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Thu May 11, 2017 9:49 am

We didn't meet the same problem about this on our side. This was a suggestion from our Japanese reseller. They think that is too dangerous for users.
We also think your thought is valuable, so we will make this to be an option.

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JohnSays
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Re: Urgent fix needed

Postby JohnSays » Thu May 11, 2017 11:59 am

Yes! Super cool. I'm doing a happy dance here.
- John
2 Raise3D N2 Duals, V2 nozzles, Bondtech BMGs, and adjustable table

tja
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Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 10:24 pm
Location: Essex, UK

Re: Urgent fix needed

Postby tja » Fri May 12, 2017 3:59 pm

Just want to add my support for maintaining the heater temperatures after a print run and after a reel change operation. As John elaborates above it is so annoying to have to wait for it to warm-up every time. A 5 minute timer would seem to be the best compromise of efficiency and safety.

Can we have it very soon please?

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walshlg
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Re: Urgent fix needed

Postby walshlg » Sun May 14, 2017 12:23 am

Yup and I'm the dope that heated up my machine and forgot about it and left it on all night just last week. Luckily no isolation tube jam this time

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Urgent fix needed

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Mon May 15, 2017 5:46 am

Option only for on or off will be much easier for the operating logic.
Time delay may cause, 5 minutes later, the screen needs send another 0C code to board. If at the same time the screen is handling other codes, these may conflict with each other.

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JohnSays
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Re: Urgent fix needed

Postby JohnSays » Mon May 15, 2017 7:25 pm

Makes sense without me knowing how the code actually executes. So I would be ok with on/off option. "On" was working great for me before.
- John
2 Raise3D N2 Duals, V2 nozzles, Bondtech BMGs, and adjustable table

Jetguy
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Re: Urgent fix needed

Postby Jetguy » Mon May 15, 2017 7:36 pm

John, might I suggest a workflow change.

Stop using load and unload.
All you need to do is preheat and it will stay whatever temp. Then ensure you click the disable motor icon, manually push the filament in to extrude, then pull back out and done. Load again manually pushing the filament. Could solve the ENTIRE issue with a workflow chance that is WAAAAAAY faster than the total slop method of using load and unload menu, waiting then hitting buttons again, then waiting.

Jetguy
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Re: Urgent fix needed

Postby Jetguy » Mon May 15, 2017 7:42 pm

Again, Bondtech or stock extruder, when repeatedly loading or changing filaments to waste time waiting for load and unload menu items to slowly power the filament in and out. While a nice function to have for a novice to make 3D printing seem cool and "automated", it's also not a time saver if doing this repeatedly as you indicated. Besides, as an experienced pro, you should be testing and feeling the extrusion pressure by hand, you should know if there are problems.

Again, cannot stress this enough, with practically any extruder if the motor is unlocked, you should be able to move the filament in and out by hand. Yes, even on a Bondtech, even without releasing the lever. Waiting for the slow unload of filament, then loading- that's your problem right there.

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JohnSays
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Re: Urgent fix needed

Postby JohnSays » Tue May 16, 2017 2:58 pm

Brilliant! Thank you. Duhhh... LOL
- John
2 Raise3D N2 Duals, V2 nozzles, Bondtech BMGs, and adjustable table

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walshlg
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Re: Urgent fix needed

Postby walshlg » Wed May 17, 2017 12:15 pm

is the raise extruder ever disengaged?

tja
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Location: Essex, UK

Re: Urgent fix needed

Postby tja » Thu May 18, 2017 8:58 pm

Yes, it does disengage the extruder. No, I couldn't push PLA filament through it by hand.

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JohnSays
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Location: Saint Petersburg, FL

Re: Urgent fix needed

Postby JohnSays » Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:17 pm

The newest firmware - 9.2.1026 - now includes an option to not turn off the hot end. Thank you! This comes at a very opportune time as I now have the direct dual drive BondTech installed on both machines and I have found it nearly impossible to hand feed the filament past the drive gears even with the thumb screws totally backed out. Now I must use the Load function. The fact that the heater does not turn off every time I do a Load is very helpful. I can still hand pull the filament to unload though.
- John
2 Raise3D N2 Duals, V2 nozzles, Bondtech BMGs, and adjustable table

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 3:54 am

Re: Urgent fix needed

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:57 am

You are welcome. That is the most friendly solution (and not very hard to achieve in short time) we can find for solving the problem which some think useful and some think unnecessary.

Andy Cohen
Posts: 162
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2016 4:43 pm

Re: Urgent fix needed

Postby Andy Cohen » Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:03 pm

JohnSays wrote:I think I need to make this more clear and mark it urgent. I posted this in the change request catagory but I think it will get more visibility here.

I consider the recent change to the LCD firmware a huge step backwards and urgent to fix. Specifically, the heat to the nozzle is terminated each time a Load or Unload or stop takes place. The added time is killing me. I am experimenting with new filaments and moving reels on and off the machine and rerunning the calibration tests over and over. This in itself is a very long and arduous process. Consider this:

Set heat to unload current filament
Wait
Unload filament
Set heat to load new filament
Wait
Load filament
Observe that nozzle should be cleaned with cleaner filament
Stop load
Set heat to unload
Wait
Unload
Set heat to load cleaning filament
Wait
Load cleaning filament
Stop load
Set heat to unload cleaning filament
Wait
Unload filament
Set heat to load previously loaded filament
Wait
Press "Load" filament
The N2 exits the process unexpectedly on its own (this happened to me today without me touching anything)
Re-set heat to load previously loaded filament
Wait
Stop load process
Set heat to print
Wait
Print object
Find out z-height needs adjustment
Press Stop
Set heat again
Wait
Restart print

You see the trend. No matter how fast I am to set the heat again it has dropped 20C minimum. But the problem is that it will continue to fall until the firmware can get a handle on how fast to raise it back in range. Of course, that is if I remembered, elsewise it drops right to about 50C inside of a minute. Then, of course, the wait times increase dramatically.

Please fix this on an urgent basis. If others want the heat turned off each time they touch the machine, then add an option for those who use it to produce. The added time to print an object on top of all the other time it takes is not just frustrating, it is an income killer and general stressor.

------------------
John Welch

Why not try the following... Set your extruder temp as you want in the "Tune" screen...
Be sure all the motors are disabled... In the Utilities screen, the motor icon in the upper right corner.
Then do all your load and unloads manually... i.e., pulling or pushing the filament through yourself. I as a rule always push it down before I pull it out to remove any oversized bit that may have melted a touch.

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JohnSays
Posts: 489
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Location: Saint Petersburg, FL

Re: Urgent fix needed

Postby JohnSays » Wed Jul 12, 2017 2:20 am

Yes Andy, and thanks. JetGuy brought this to my attention too. I started doing it manually with my "old" BondTecs, but the new dual direct drive seems to be a real bear to do a manual load even after releasing the motors. However, the new firmware allows the hot end to stay hot after a load or unload. One of my dual directs allows an easy Load and Unload, but the other three extruders are too tight. They all unload easy-peasy. I find holding the leers back rather hard as well. The older BondTecs had more leverage available on the lever and that made it easier.
- John
2 Raise3D N2 Duals, V2 nozzles, Bondtech BMGs, and adjustable table


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