IdeaMaker: contents of the data file?

Discussions about ideaMaker and other printing software.
RA1981
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Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2017 7:56 pm

IdeaMaker: contents of the data file?

Postby RA1981 » Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:04 am

Hi,

does anyone know what the contents of the data file are? From what I've figured out yet at least a picture of the print is included to show the status on the touchscreen. The picture will fill up as the print process proceeds.

So, if the G-code file is from a different software, someone can get the picture by slicing the models with IdeaMaker and the replace the G-code file. I want to know if the slice process done by IM must have the same layer height, etc as in the 3rd party software to show the process correctly.

Reason why I ask: if the settings for height, etc are indepedant, I could make a 'generic' picture data file, so I don't have always to slice in IM prior to generating the G-code file.

Regards

Jetguy
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Re: IdeaMaker: contents of the data file?

Postby Jetguy » Mon Mar 27, 2017 1:41 pm

Sorry I'm not following your suggestion or workflow.
The printer prints gcode - period. as long as that gcode is reasonable and correct for the printer, it doesn't matter what slicer it came from.
The data file produced along side the gcode is only produced by ideamaker and is OPTIONAL meaning, all it does is display the preview on the LCD screen. Also, the percentage complete line on the screen that shades in the object as it prints- that's not exactly a layer by layer detail, it's just percentage wiping over the image.

As such, you absolutely can print gcode from any slicer, either transfer it to the printer via SCP protocol, using the Ideamaker Upload, or sneakernet over to the printer on a USB or SD card.

Further, I don't get what you are saying. If you slice the same file with ideamaker, yet, you might get a similar data image file and maybe, maybe not the preview works. Not worth the time or effort in my book, and the confusion of placing gcode X created by alternate slicer, with then slicing the same STL in ideamaker just to make a preview data file- the chance of printing the wrong gcode is high.

Now if you are asking can Raise 3D "open source" the data file so that 3rd party slicers can also create them- yes, I support that idea fully.
However, I grew greatly concerned when reading what you said "Reason why I ask: if the settings for height, etc are indepedant, I could make a 'generic' picture data file, so I don't have always to slice in IM prior to generating the G-code file."
That tells me you don't understand gcode in the slightest. Not trying to make fun of you, just pointing out a major gap in your knowledge base.

Gcode is everything.
The printer ONLY does what it's told.
Gcode is the language by which a command (M or G + Number) = command
That is followed by a common syntax of value (often distance in mm or other setting), Axis applied to (so 50X is 50mm in X)
Also knowing that gcode is the syntax that the line you are reading is the target end point. Where you are now is the previous line of gcode target position or "state". Once you get that, this is just a game of Simon says.
Last edited by Jetguy on Mon Mar 27, 2017 2:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

RA1981
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Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2017 7:56 pm

Re: IdeaMaker: contents of the data file?

Postby RA1981 » Mon Mar 27, 2017 1:58 pm

Hi Jetguy,

That tells me you don't understand gcode in the slightest. Not trying to make fun of you, just pointing out a major gap in your knowledge base.

Full ack. I never claimed to know anything about gcode =)
That's why I asked about the data file and if it's in ANY way related to the slicer settings or if it's simply an independant preview picture.

Not work the time or effort in my book, and the confusion of placing gcode X created by alternate slicer, with then slicing the same STL in ideamaker just to make a preview data file- the chance of printing the wrong gcode is high.

Yes, I agree - that's why I want to know the above. Because then I never had to generate gcode twice, I simply can take a generic data file with a default image, I just have to rename the data file.

Regarding the gcode knowledge, that's something I have on my to-learn list, because I want to know the commands and what they do.

Regards

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: IdeaMaker: contents of the data file?

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Wed Apr 05, 2017 7:10 am

If the file name of the gcode and data files, the image will appear when printing.
If you are using S3D, the height and progress will be almost the same as the one ideaMaker sliced.
If you are using other slicer, the progress will be wrong at the beginning, but be more and more closer in the end. The height and layers display may not be correct.

ZenJediMaster
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Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2016 4:39 am

Re: IdeaMaker: contents of the data file?

Postby ZenJediMaster » Sun Apr 30, 2017 7:19 pm

2nd the open sourcing of the .data file format, though optional, it's a user friendly visual aide. It also is easier to recall the items I have on th e local storage with the associated image.

stewart
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Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:17 am

Re: IdeaMaker: contents of the data file?

Postby stewart » Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:26 pm

Late to the game on this. Just got my N2 and getting very good prints (better in many cases) using my slicer (https://grid.space/kiri) ... but I would dearly like to also be able to generate the associated .data file so that the printer displays all the right information.
Last edited by stewart on Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

AJM
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Joined: Tue May 02, 2017 11:20 pm

Re: IdeaMaker: contents of the data file?

Postby AJM » Sun Dec 10, 2017 3:19 pm

I would suggest eliminating the data file in the first place. Having a separate data file is a hassle when automating the process using scripts and Raise3D is one of the few that has this 2-file system. Using just one file for the gcode also makes it more compatible with other slicer and printer.
This can be done in one of two ways:
1. Just have the touch controller interpret the gcode and generate its own visual image. It would not be instantaneous with a slow controller, but it is not that slow either. It just needs to be an approximate image interpreter, so it would be reasonably fast. This has the advantage that image will be generated no matter what slicer is used.
2. Embed the image data within the gcode file as multiple comment lines, like:
;Raise3D-Image:FF010203ABACAD
The binary data can be encoded as nibbles to be printable characters and doubles the size, but that is the easiest.
There is no printing time penalty if temperature setting for extruder/bed is done first, then the image data, then the printing gcode; all the image data will have been skipped by the time it is at the correct temperature.

stewart
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Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:17 am

Re: IdeaMaker: contents of the data file?

Postby stewart » Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:44 pm

1. How do I get the touch controller to interpret the gcode and generate an image?
2. Does the touch controller interpret embedded images in the gcode? If so, what's the expected file format? Is this documented somewhere?

thanks!

stewart
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Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:17 am

Re: IdeaMaker: contents of the data file?

Postby stewart » Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:53 pm

bump ... is there a documented (or known) way to embed an image and have the printer show it?

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Michael.P@Raise3D
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Re: IdeaMaker: contents of the data file?

Postby Michael.P@Raise3D » Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:03 pm

Hi Stewart,

I do not believe in our current setup we can have the touch screen display embedded pictures in the G-Code, this is why we use the .data file that gets exported from iM. To my knowledge, we have not had anyone embed an image into the G-code and get it to run on the touchscreen.
Michael Petitclerc, Technician
Tel: +888 963 9028
Web: http://www.raise3d.com

stewart
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Re: IdeaMaker: contents of the data file?

Postby stewart » Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:18 pm

Are you going to document a way for other slicers to generate the image and/or the other settings (like print time) so that the printer status will reflect appropriately?

thanks

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: IdeaMaker: contents of the data file?

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:35 am

Sorry, but currently we have no plan to release the document for other slicers.
We are planning to add more information into Gcode file.
For print time generating, you can take reference from our Gcode file. The format is at the end of the file.
1.png
1.png (5.93 KiB) Viewed 1370 times

stewart
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Re: IdeaMaker: contents of the data file?

Postby stewart » Wed Dec 20, 2017 3:56 pm

Thanks for the info. It's disappoint, however, to learn that you are not supportive of using other slicers. It's hard to be both a good hardware and a good software company at the same time. You will likely never provide all the slicers features professional and prosumer customers will desire.

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: IdeaMaker: contents of the data file?

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:47 am

We hope our software can be as universal as possible. But it may take some time for us to approach the goal. We feel so sorry if we have disappointing you.

stewart
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Re: IdeaMaker: contents of the data file?

Postby stewart » Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:32 pm

I am adding lines like this to the gcode:

;LAYER:0
;HEIGHT:0.350

but the printer shows heights much higher than what's in the file. these lines look just like the ones emitted by IdeaMaker. is there some other output that needs to be in the gcode to accurately represent height progress?

thanks

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: IdeaMaker: contents of the data file?

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:37 am

The height progress reads directly the Z value but not the comment codes you added.
Which software are you using for slicing? May I ask your gcode file to check?

stewart
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Re: IdeaMaker: contents of the data file?

Postby stewart » Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:00 pm

If I eliminate the ;HEIGHT:x.xxx lines from the gcode, the front panel shows no height. It stays at 0/0 the whole time.

stewart
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Re: IdeaMaker: contents of the data file?

Postby stewart » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:06 pm

Here are two files. One with ;HEIGHT and one without. Otherwise identical. The one with report the wrong height in the front panel. The one without shows zeros. Pictures included in the .zip attachment.
Attachments
examples.zip
(511.3 KiB) Downloaded 12 times

EldRick
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Re: IdeaMaker: contents of the data file?

Postby EldRick » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:04 pm

You can substitute a data file to fake the picture from non-iM gcode, but it won't get updated with progress, so not much point.

What's just stupid is that the display does not show the current layer count or height as progress indicators for non-iM gcode. Even Marlin's direct interface shows both of these figures, which are far more useful progress indicators than the distorted image.

stewart
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Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:17 am

Re: IdeaMaker: contents of the data file?

Postby stewart » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:35 pm

OK, so I generated gcode using IdeaMaker then stripped the comments from it. The version with comments shows Height progress normally. The version with comments stripped does not (shows 0 / 0 the entire time). Attached.
Attachments
comments-vs-none.zip
(28.87 KiB) Downloaded 15 times


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