Upgrade Components for N Series are Coming!

Thoughts about Raise3D, 3D printing and making in general.
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Vicky@Raise3D
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Upgrade Components for N Series are Coming!

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:04 pm

Dear All,

After the launch of Pro2 Series, many customers asked us about the possibility to upgrade from their N-series printer to the Pro2. As we mentioned earlier, upgrading N-Series printers to the Pro2 would be unrealistic, as they are essentially different printers. However, after analyzing this request internally, we concluded that there are some components that can be upgraded.

The upgrade components are the following:
1. BondTech Dual Extruder
2. BondTech Single Extruder
3. N Series Webcam
4. Hot End Silicon Cover (3pcs/set)

The upgrade components will be made available initially on pre-sales, starting around the end of next week.

Thanks for all your supporting for Raise3D in the passing years!
We do value each comment from you!

Jetguy
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Location: In a van, down by the river

Re: Upgrade Components for N Series are Coming!

Postby Jetguy » Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:56 pm

Please add at a minimum the Z axis adjuster from the Pro2 series as this can improve the adjustment and stability on the N series. It's a small simple part that does make a difference and is compatible with both the optical endstop and a mechanical switch style.
Z stop endstop adjuster.jpg
Z stop endstop adjuster.jpg (32.9 KiB) Viewed 1402 times


Also, why not the heated bed? Surely there has to be a solution to sell this mod right?
10_2_1020x700.jpg

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Upgrade Components for N Series are Coming!

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:45 am

Confirmed with the R&D team, both two upgrades you asked needs to drill the base plate to carry out the installation.

Stanislav
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Re: Upgrade Components for N Series are Coming!

Postby Stanislav » Sat Jul 21, 2018 3:48 pm

This is elementary just released upgrades with size for drilling
I'm sure that everyone will be madet
Stanislav

there is always a smarter man than you

FreedomRules
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Re: Upgrade Components for N Series are Coming!

Postby FreedomRules » Sun Jul 22, 2018 3:05 am

That or just put all the parts online and allow your customers to decide for themselves if we want to tackle the upgrades. I hope your reasoning isn't hoping users will buy a new machine. From what I've seen you have a decent amount of users asking you to come up with upgrade options as they want to spend money. What they don't want to do is buy a whole new machine.

Evan
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Re: Upgrade Components for N Series are Coming!

Postby Evan » Sun Jul 22, 2018 6:04 pm

Great news! Looking forward to upgrading to the Bondtech extruder directly through Raise3D.

Mike101
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Re: Upgrade Components for N Series are Coming!

Postby Mike101 » Mon Jul 23, 2018 11:43 pm

When you say "Dual Extruder" does this include the ability to raise and lower the left and right nozzle?

detroitus
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Re: Upgrade Components for N Series are Coming!

Postby detroitus » Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:06 pm

Mike101 wrote:When you say "Dual Extruder" does this include the ability to raise and lower the left and right nozzle?


Pretty sure she's just referring to this:

http://shop.bondtech.se/en/upgrade-kits ... grade.html

FreedomRules
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Re: Upgrade Components for N Series are Coming!

Postby FreedomRules » Tue Jul 24, 2018 6:55 pm

detroitus wrote:
Mike101 wrote:When you say "Dual Extruder" does this include the ability to raise and lower the left and right nozzle?


Pretty sure she's just referring to this:

http://shop.bondtech.se/en/upgrade-kits ... grade.html



I wish they'd do this but it would likely curb alot of existing N Series users from upgrading to the newer unit. So I'd seriously doubt you'll ever see that upgrade coming from them. Its on my list of things to build for mine along with water cooled heads. But I have to take it one step at a time. Currently trying to wrap up my new build plate system. Then after that will be the new gantry system followed by water cooled lifting print heads. Hopefully anyway. Reason for gantry upgrade is the bars are too small and create to much deflection plus its a speed inhibitor then again FDM itself isn't really designed for super speed.

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Upgrade Components for N Series are Coming!

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Tue Jul 24, 2018 11:07 pm

Mike101 wrote:When you say "Dual Extruder" does this include the ability to raise and lower the left and right nozzle?


Nozzle lifting is not included, only the extruder.

Mike101
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Re: Upgrade Components for N Series are Coming!

Postby Mike101 » Tue Jul 24, 2018 11:58 pm

No point in upgrading then if the dual nozzle is as useless as day one.

lami3d
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Re: Upgrade Components for N Series are Coming!

Postby lami3d » Fri Jul 27, 2018 12:54 pm

Hello,

i would be only interested with getting the flat motor instead of the orginal i use with my bondtech single extruder.
In order to reduce the weight and to recover the whole bed (actualy, i have a fan and an heatsink at the back of the motor and so 270mm following Y axis instead of 305mm).

Is that compatible with the "first" bondtech casing ?
What are the new value M92 EXXX to put in the gcode ?
Is it possible to order ? and where ?

Thanks for your help.

Jetguy
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Re: Upgrade Components for N Series are Coming!

Postby Jetguy » Fri Jul 27, 2018 1:53 pm

lami3d wrote:Hello,

i would be only interested with getting the flat motor instead of the orginal i use with my bondtech single extruder.
In order to reduce the weight and to recover the whole bed (actualy, i have a fan and an heatsink at the back of the motor and so 270mm following Y axis instead of 305mm).

Is that compatible with the "first" bondtech casing ?
What are the new value M92 EXXX to put in the gcode ?
Is it possible to order ? and where ?

Thanks for your help.


Let's go over Bondtech offerings.
If you are using an earlier model using your existing motor, that is called the mini and is a direct drive (the Bondtech feeder gear is directly on the motor shaft). No, you cannot use a pancake "flat" motor with that design or housing because a smaller (shorter) motor makes less torque and will skip steps. This style uses 140 steps per mm. There is also a note here that the housing does not allow 2 motors for dual extruders. This system and the geometry required one motor to be mounted there, and the second extruder was a remote Bowden feed. There were 2 options for the remote Bowden feeder, either another direct drive "mini" that reused the existing motor, or a Bondtech QR extruder, which was a standalone and honestly the earliest version of the Bondtech series that used a 5:1 all metal gearbox reduced motor, 8mm larger shaft size gripping gears on the filament, and has a much higher 476.5 steps per mm. This is why this dual extruder version was called a "hybrid" because it was both direct drive for one side and bowden for the other, and also had a problematic (for firmware) different steps per mm for each extruder 140 VS 476.5. Again, there was a variant dual that used 2 "mini" extruder direct drive feeders that reused existing Raise 3D motors and kept the same steps per mm for both direct and Bowden drives.
For reference, here is an original Bondtech "mini" that reuses the stock Raise 3D motor as installed on an N1
Drive tension adjustment.jpg

Here is the hobbed filament gripping gear directly on the motor shaft in the "mini" design
Drivegear setscrew.jpg




The newer current offering for Bondtech upgrade is either a dual or single extruder variation based on the "BMG" 3:1 gear reduced version of the Bondtech system. At the filament gripping section, it is still using the same Bondtech hobbed gears, but they are attached to a layshaft with a larger white gear that is driven by a smaller pinion mounted on the motor. This means the motor spins 3 times for every 1 revolution of the actual shaft gripping the filament. This additional gear reduction is why a smaller motor like the pancake motor can be used and still achieve the torque and force required to ensure that you do not skip steps and have skips in extrusion by using a smaller motor.
This is the newer totally different housing because again, you have to account for the 3:1 gear reduction. Technically, you can use the stock original OEM Raise 3D motor or the smaller pancake motor, the whole idea being that the "upgrade" and reason for using this is the pancake motors is lighter weight.
Again, the new version is based on a 3:1 ratio, is an all new housing, and thus can use the smaller pancake motor to save weight. Both the single and dual version use the same internal components so they use the same basic settings:
E-step value: 415
Current for motor: 0.7A (Vref setting = 0.5V)


156858704-origpic-afc7f8.jpg

or
Dual.jpg


On this question
Is it possible to order ? and where ?

I personally would not order and wait from Raise 3D. There is no price difference, and this is not even shipping until late August???
Raise 3D only just posted this new N series upgrade page listing and again, much of the new upgrades is a "pre-order"
https://www.raise3d.com/pages/upgrade-c ... r-n-series

In Europe, I would just buy direct from Bondtech http://shop.bondtech.se/en/upgrade-kits ... grade.html or http://shop.bondtech.se/en/upgrade-kits ... grade.html
In the US I would order from my favorite reseller https://www.filastruder.com/collections ... ct-upgrade or https://www.filastruder.com/collections ... ct-upgrade

lami3d
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Location: Marseille - France

Re: Upgrade Components for N Series are Coming!

Postby lami3d » Fri Jul 27, 2018 2:48 pm

Thank you very much for the explanations !
I already order to bondtech... it was a silly question

I have doubt for dual extrusion for the pro2 (one told me...) so i'm not going to take a dual extruder for the N2...

Ari
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Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2016 3:18 pm

Re: Upgrade Components for N Series are Coming!

Postby Ari » Fri Jul 27, 2018 6:31 pm

If Raise3D are limiting the upgrade components to the following items only;

1. BondTech Dual Extruder
2. BondTech Single Extruder
3. N Series Webcam
4. Hot End Silicon Cover (3pcs/set)

How is it that 3d-drucker are advertising for sale in certain areas of Europe, all the parts required to build the N2Pro extruder/lift assembly?

https://www.3d-drucker-experte.de/raise3d/?p=1


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