Just Released N2 Pro

Thoughts about Raise3D, 3D printing and making in general.
Jetguy
Posts: 2529
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 1:40 am
Location: In a van, down by the river

Re: Just Released N2 Pro

Postby Jetguy » Wed May 30, 2018 1:39 pm

Again, based on pictures in this thread, I know every single wire and connection to the new Pro2 series.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8460&p=31272&hilit=pro2#p30913
#1 starting at the top of the machine, you can see the new extruder head breakout with a slightly different position of the 3 wire heater connector, and so if that's changed, then you need the new matching breakout to match the new mainboard. It also appears to be the same basic shape and size as the previous board. While the cable changed from a ribbon cable to a new round style cable, it still is the same IDC double row connector.
extruder head breakout.jpg
extruder head breakout.jpg (33.26 KiB) Viewed 1162 times

#2 details at the mainboard confirm these things like the cabling further. Again, while the new cable is different, the same 3 wire power for the heaters is used, the same basic IDC connector is used, it's still JST-XH connectors for endstops, the bed thermistor, and the new filament detector.
Mainboard2.jpg
Mainboard.jpg


#3 The external stepper drivers are very simple with step, direction, and enable signals. This is pretty bog standard for any standard stepper driver.
stepper drivers.jpg
stepper drivers.jpg (37.24 KiB) Viewed 1162 times


#4 The entire moving nozzle system could be an upgrade module. It simply bolts with the same 4 long M3 screws through the central crossing block. It just replaces the existing and much smaller bracket we use with V2 hotends.

#5 an upgrade that was not really discussed that I think should also be top of the list is the new style machined adjustable endstop "bumper". I see no reason why it could not be used with either mechanical or optical endstop. It just fixes the wobbly screw adjust many have now.
Z stop endstop.jpg
Z stop endstop.jpg (19.63 KiB) Viewed 1162 times

Jetguy
Posts: 2529
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 1:40 am
Location: In a van, down by the river

Re: Just Released N2 Pro

Postby Jetguy » Wed May 30, 2018 11:21 pm

Jetguy wrote:
Vicky@Raise3D wrote:Just got some news from R&D. That we are going to have silicone cover also for N series' hotend. More information will be released soon.


When can we expect an update on Pro2 upgrades for existing customers?
It's the end of the month, it's been asked for over and over and over, you had your chance to sell Pro2s to folks willing to buy them, now it's clear many have taken the "wait and see" and what we've seen, hasn't been exactly jaw dropping.

That said, many of us still have our non-pro and are looking to at least get basic features talked about since the kickstarter.
So specifically:
What's the deal with the camera for non-pro? This is not hard, and yet, it's near June 2018 and we still don't have this.
You just said R&D knows about the hotend insulating sock covers- that should be available the day you typed the reply.

What about a kit of a replacement touchscreen "box" and new 32 bit mainboard? I know full well you won't offer tech support, but again, bottom line, I'm NOT buying a Pro2 anytime soon, you aren't sending me one for review, this is the way forward.
Since I now know you are using Leadshine stepper drivers (I mean really, why on EARTH are you not able to say that when asked?) I could buy them from you or source them on my own. viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8460&p=31272&hilit=pro2#p30980
15268898832577928557878425048919.jpg


Again, all I want to see listed are the Pro2 touchscreen and mainboard and matching extruder head breakout board.

If you decide to list the parts to make the moving nozzle, great for those asking.
Same with the bed and endstops, and for those who cannot make one, the wiring harness.

I say this, because I know enough to know right now:
#1 the required combination is the Pro2 touchscreen and Pro2 mainboard and extruder head breakout. These 3 components make the bulk of the upgrade system. Yes, you need external stepper drivers, but since they are external, the user can select and use whatever they want.
#2 the moving nozzle system uses a standard RC style servo. As such, the mainboard honestly cannot tell if it's plugged in or not. This means the moving nozzles is not a "required" part of the upgrade to change the electronics.
#3 filament detection has not cracked up to be as great as advertised, and as such, I think the DIY community has the edge. Since this feature can be disabled in firmware, not required as part of the "upgrade"
#4 While the endstops for Pro2 are 3 wire opticals, again, not an absolute "requirement" and 2 wire switch endstops can be made to work.

Again, for those of us with significant upgrades already invested in our printers to be the way we like them, we are not interested in ditching them just to go to a Pro2 series. We are however, willing within reason to make further upgrades to bring our machines to the next level specification with the features we most want.


Just bumping this again since Raise3D official tech support is answering questions:
#1 Pro2 silicone insulating sock that we can see should fit existing non-pro V2 hotends- what's the price, why aren't they in the store?
#2 Camera functionality for non-pro machine- it's as simple as selling the camera and a the Raisepack update for the non-pro and yet we do not have it.
#3 Pro2 upgrade parts for the rest of us. You said in May, it's the end of May, what's the status? It's not that hard to figure out a parts cost, let's get this ball rolling already.

User avatar
Vicky@Raise3D
Posts: 3768
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 3:54 am

Re: Just Released N2 Pro

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Thu May 31, 2018 8:42 pm

Jetguy wrote:
Jetguy wrote:
Vicky@Raise3D wrote:Just got some news from R&D. That we are going to have silicone cover also for N series' hotend. More information will be released soon.


When can we expect an update on Pro2 upgrades for existing customers?
It's the end of the month, it's been asked for over and over and over, you had your chance to sell Pro2s to folks willing to buy them, now it's clear many have taken the "wait and see" and what we've seen, hasn't been exactly jaw dropping.

That said, many of us still have our non-pro and are looking to at least get basic features talked about since the kickstarter.
So specifically:
What's the deal with the camera for non-pro? This is not hard, and yet, it's near June 2018 and we still don't have this.
You just said R&D knows about the hotend insulating sock covers- that should be available the day you typed the reply.

What about a kit of a replacement touchscreen "box" and new 32 bit mainboard? I know full well you won't offer tech support, but again, bottom line, I'm NOT buying a Pro2 anytime soon, you aren't sending me one for review, this is the way forward.
Since I now know you are using Leadshine stepper drivers (I mean really, why on EARTH are you not able to say that when asked?) I could buy them from you or source them on my own. viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8460&p=31272&hilit=pro2#p30980
15268898832577928557878425048919.jpg


Again, all I want to see listed are the Pro2 touchscreen and mainboard and matching extruder head breakout board.

If you decide to list the parts to make the moving nozzle, great for those asking.
Same with the bed and endstops, and for those who cannot make one, the wiring harness.

I say this, because I know enough to know right now:
#1 the required combination is the Pro2 touchscreen and Pro2 mainboard and extruder head breakout. These 3 components make the bulk of the upgrade system. Yes, you need external stepper drivers, but since they are external, the user can select and use whatever they want.
#2 the moving nozzle system uses a standard RC style servo. As such, the mainboard honestly cannot tell if it's plugged in or not. This means the moving nozzles is not a "required" part of the upgrade to change the electronics.
#3 filament detection has not cracked up to be as great as advertised, and as such, I think the DIY community has the edge. Since this feature can be disabled in firmware, not required as part of the "upgrade"
#4 While the endstops for Pro2 are 3 wire opticals, again, not an absolute "requirement" and 2 wire switch endstops can be made to work.

Again, for those of us with significant upgrades already invested in our printers to be the way we like them, we are not interested in ditching them just to go to a Pro2 series. We are however, willing within reason to make further upgrades to bring our machines to the next level specification with the features we most want.


Just bumping this again since Raise3D official tech support is answering questions:
#1 Pro2 silicone insulating sock that we can see should fit existing non-pro V2 hotends- what's the price, why aren't they in the store?
#2 Camera functionality for non-pro machine- it's as simple as selling the camera and a the Raisepack update for the non-pro and yet we do not have it.
#3 Pro2 upgrade parts for the rest of us. You said in May, it's the end of May, what's the status? It's not that hard to figure out a parts cost, let's get this ball rolling already.


Just got feedback from Marketing team that we would start pre-sales in mid-June and you would see the list of possible upgrade kits you can choose at that time.

claytony565
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon May 07, 2018 4:07 pm

Re: Just Released N2 Pro

Postby claytony565 » Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:27 pm

Vicky@Raise3D wrote:
Jetguy wrote:Last, I'm tempted to call you out on speeds. If the basic gantry mechanics stayed the same, and the change here is electronics and firmware, yes, you may have sent gcode at 80mm/s perimeter. Like I've said hundreds of times, that's like a speed limit sign in both the max speed and desired speed- but absolutely says nothing to the actual mechanical speed. You might have improved and printed faster, but real speed and set speed are not the same thing. Again, not saying you could not have made an improvement, I'm saying let's not kid each other and lie, that number and it's actual mechanical movement value are not the same. And really, I'm saying a negative statement here, so if I'm wrong, then great for you and egg on my face. If I'm right, then users printing massive objects will see a speed increase, but not at the scale the numbers indicate. 25mm/s to 80mm/s is more than 3X faster, but the print is not 3X shorter in time.


It’s true that rising printing speed from 25mm/s to 80mm/s is not a simple math of 3X shorter time. Based on our tests of Pro2 series printers by now, 20%-30% time off with the same layer height compared with N series’ printer is accomplishable. What’s more, the more important point is that the improvement is not only the printing speed, but you can get the high quality with less printing time.
With N series printer, we set 0.15mm layer height as standard option. But now the Pro2 series printer can almost reach to the same printing quality or sometimes even better under 0.25mm layer height compared with N series’. We think it does make sense for the users who use the printers for heavy daily work.
Nor is this all, we are also exploring the area of lager size nozzle with adaptive layer height which may need a more powerful electronic platform and firmware.


Thought I would chime in on the speed portion. We have an N2+ and a Pro2 at work now and using the default speed settings - a print that takes 46 hours on the N2+ only takes 36 hours on the Pro2. That is the largest difference we have found, but in general everything is printed faster on the Pro2 compared to the N2+. The Pro2 also looks better with a larger layer height. the quality of print using the Speed setting on the Pro2 is comparable to the standard setting on the N2+. We have only had the Pro2 for about 2 weeks and our N2+ is down with a bad ribbon cable so I may be partial to the running printer. However, it has already proven to be a higher quality machine.

newraiseuser
Posts: 94
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2018 2:58 am

Re: Just Released N2 Pro

Postby newraiseuser » Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:46 am

Vicky@Raise3D wrote:
Jetguy wrote:
Jetguy wrote:
When can we expect an update on Pro2 upgrades for existing customers?
It's the end of the month, it's been asked for over and over and over, you had your chance to sell Pro2s to folks willing to buy them, now it's clear many have taken the "wait and see" and what we've seen, hasn't been exactly jaw dropping.

That said, many of us still have our non-pro and are looking to at least get basic features talked about since the kickstarter.
So specifically:
What's the deal with the camera for non-pro? This is not hard, and yet, it's near June 2018 and we still don't have this.
You just said R&D knows about the hotend insulating sock covers- that should be available the day you typed the reply.

What about a kit of a replacement touchscreen "box" and new 32 bit mainboard? I know full well you won't offer tech support, but again, bottom line, I'm NOT buying a Pro2 anytime soon, you aren't sending me one for review, this is the way forward.
Since I now know you are using Leadshine stepper drivers (I mean really, why on EARTH are you not able to say that when asked?) I could buy them from you or source them on my own. viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8460&p=31272&hilit=pro2#p30980
15268898832577928557878425048919.jpg


Again, all I want to see listed are the Pro2 touchscreen and mainboard and matching extruder head breakout board.

If you decide to list the parts to make the moving nozzle, great for those asking.
Same with the bed and endstops, and for those who cannot make one, the wiring harness.

I say this, because I know enough to know right now:
#1 the required combination is the Pro2 touchscreen and Pro2 mainboard and extruder head breakout. These 3 components make the bulk of the upgrade system. Yes, you need external stepper drivers, but since they are external, the user can select and use whatever they want.
#2 the moving nozzle system uses a standard RC style servo. As such, the mainboard honestly cannot tell if it's plugged in or not. This means the moving nozzles is not a "required" part of the upgrade to change the electronics.
#3 filament detection has not cracked up to be as great as advertised, and as such, I think the DIY community has the edge. Since this feature can be disabled in firmware, not required as part of the "upgrade"
#4 While the endstops for Pro2 are 3 wire opticals, again, not an absolute "requirement" and 2 wire switch endstops can be made to work.

Again, for those of us with significant upgrades already invested in our printers to be the way we like them, we are not interested in ditching them just to go to a Pro2 series. We are however, willing within reason to make further upgrades to bring our machines to the next level specification with the features we most want.


Just bumping this again since Raise3D official tech support is answering questions:
#1 Pro2 silicone insulating sock that we can see should fit existing non-pro V2 hotends- what's the price, why aren't they in the store?
#2 Camera functionality for non-pro machine- it's as simple as selling the camera and a the Raisepack update for the non-pro and yet we do not have it.
#3 Pro2 upgrade parts for the rest of us. You said in May, it's the end of May, what's the status? It's not that hard to figure out a parts cost, let's get this ball rolling already.


Just got feedback from Marketing team that we would start pre-sales in mid-June and you would see the list of possible upgrade kits you can choose at that time.



Could you please let me know where I can see the list of possible upgrade kits?

Jetguy
Posts: 2529
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 1:40 am
Location: In a van, down by the river

Re: Just Released N2 Pro

Postby Jetguy » Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:58 am

newraiseuser wrote:Could you please let me know where I can see the list of possible upgrade kits?

They are not yet listed- at least that's the most recent answer. Posted Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:32 pm
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=8978&p=32754#p32754
Vicky@Raise3D wrote:I'm so sorry but the news release of the Upgrade Kits for N series may need to have one week delay.

newraiseuser
Posts: 94
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2018 2:58 am

Re: Just Released N2 Pro

Postby newraiseuser » Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:34 pm

Jetguy wrote:
newraiseuser wrote:Could you please let me know where I can see the list of possible upgrade kits?

They are not yet listed- at least that's the most recent answer. Posted Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:32 pm
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=8978&p=32754#p32754
Vicky@Raise3D wrote:I'm so sorry but the news release of the Upgrade Kits for N series may need to have one week delay.


Thanks.

My purchase decision has been delayed for months. First there were issues with irresponsible local dealer and troubles in shipping to Canada. Then, I waited for the new model to release. Next, I wait for reviews from independent reviewers and the upgrade cost. Months have passed and wasted...


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