Thermal-Protector - available soon to all

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Thermal-Protector - available soon to all

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:20 pm

Dear Raise3D Community,

As we have informed you recently, we were analysing the best options to make the Thermal Protector available for all printers who need it (mainly the printers that are used intensively).

Initially, we bundled it with the Filament Run-Out sensor, as it seemed to be an easy way to reach those who need it most. However, some customers showed their dissatisfaction for us only offering this alternative that clearly did/does not address all needs.

As a result, in the coming days we will make the Thermal-Protector available for all users.

We will ask each of you to fill in a form in our website, where you can request a free Thermal-Protector for each printer (regardless of its workload).

The quick link to the form: https://www.raise3d.com/pages/thermal-protector-orders

The installation instructions will be also available and the installation by you will not void the warranty, of course.


Thank you all for the feedback messages you sent us about this.

If you have any furthers questions, please send them to us, privately please. This will be the best way for us to prepare the answers and post them to all.

Jetguy
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Re: Thermal-Protector - available soon to all

Postby Jetguy » Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:22 pm

Anyway to sticky this post so it doesn't get buried?

Very happy this is addressed and hoping users see it because even I did not see this this message until browsing the topics.
Before I made this reply this was only visible if you went and browsed the "General" category.
Untitled.jpg

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EldRick
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Re: Thermal-Protector - available soon to all

Postby EldRick » Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:04 pm

Where is the thermal-protector installed? In the electronics box, or on the extruder?

Jetguy
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Re: Thermal-Protector - available soon to all

Postby Jetguy » Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:05 pm

In the electronics box at the mainboard. Putting it at the extruder would defeat the purpose of being able to detect a cable failure.
Until official instructions are released, this picture pretty much sums up the basics.
2016-07-07_21-28-56.jpg

Charles
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Re: Thermal-Protector - available soon to all

Postby Charles » Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:56 pm


Jetguy
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Re: Thermal-Protector - available soon to all

Postby Jetguy » Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:47 am

Bump for visibility.

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Thermal-Protector - available soon to all

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:10 am

Jetguy wrote:Anyway to sticky this post so it doesn't get buried?

Very happy this is addressed and hoping users see it because even I did not see this this message until browsing the topics.
Before I made this reply this was only visible if you went and browsed the "General" category.
Untitled.jpg


Edited the topic type to be Announcement. It will be stuck at the top of "General" category. But didn't find the option to stick it at the top of active posts.

sylus
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Re: Thermal-Protector - available soon to all

Postby sylus » Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:46 pm

Wise decision and ethical decision.

Jetguy
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Re: Thermal-Protector - available soon to all

Postby Jetguy » Thu Feb 22, 2018 1:20 pm

Vicky@Raise3D wrote:
Jetguy wrote:Anyway to sticky this post so it doesn't get buried?

Very happy this is addressed and hoping users see it because even I did not see this this message until browsing the topics.
Before I made this reply this was only visible if you went and browsed the "General" category.
Untitled.jpg


Edited the topic type to be Announcement. It will be stuck at the top of "General" category. But didn't find the option to stick it at the top of active posts.


Suggestion, make an announcement category.

DS2017
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Re: Thermal-Protector - available soon to all

Postby DS2017 » Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:03 pm

Hi we've been using our N2+ pretty much 24/7 for the past 5 months on stock everything (most are 12+ hour prints). Will be in use for the most part perpetually until something fails.

What is a thermal protector and what is it for? Should I order one?

zemlin
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Re: Thermal-Protector - available soon to all

Postby zemlin » Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:18 pm

It's well documented here: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3524
I work with three printers - I'll be ordering the upfit for all of them. It will prevent a melt-down in the event of a ribbon cable failure, and there's no reason not to do it.

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Re: Thermal-Protector - available soon to all

Postby Jetguy » Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:27 pm

Yes, you should order one. EVERYONE should order one and install it.

What is a thermal protector and what is it for?
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6442&p=25755&hilit=thermal+runaway#p25755
#1 any machine on the 3D printing market with a set of wires to the moving extruder head can have a failure from flexing. The head moves millions of times, that's opportunity for wear and tear. Put another way, you should expect the cable to fail. Be glad when it lasts as long as it does. Yes, under ideal conditions we expect it to last a relatively long time before failure (my oldest machine is 2 years old without a cable failure). Yes, absolutely, a minor defect on assembly of the cable chain and minor details could lead to premature failure. Nobody wants that to happen but short of taking the entire cable system apart, putting it together "your way" and knowing you did it could prevent this failure as pictured in this thread. Absolutely, if Raise 3D assembled it and contributed to early failure, they should be covering cable replacement.

#2 Given what I just said in #1, this is why the OTHER discussion is happening. Nobody wants a cable failure. That said, it can and WILL happen. So this is why the more recent discussions on the modification and safety board keep popping up. It's one thing to have a cable failure. It's whole different ballgame when a failure is NOT immediately detected within seconds of the failure. This cable failure can and DID in this very thread lead to a confirmed thermal runaway condition where the extruder did shoot over the setpoint temp and triggered a thermal runaway protection only after the cable flexed and made contact again.


Again, here is the difference. Cable failures can and WILL happen. The difference is when and how long it takes for your printer to detect a cable failure and if it ever even detects it all. The entire purpose of this is to allow instant detection of a ribbon cable failure because a ribbon cable failure can lead to an uncontrolled heater state.

What's the worst that can happen?
If not detected mid print, it could mean on the low end of the failure scale, you have a failed print and when you finally shut off and restart the printer, the next time it comes up with an error message and then you cannot print.
Worst case scenario, the cable breaks mid print, your heater is in an uncontrolled on state, overheats to high enough temps to cause serious damage to the hotend or worse. I have first hand seen and smelled a printer that destroyed a hotend, caused smoke damage, and stinks to this day even after replacing the parts. That's how hot it got, how bad the smoke and damage from the fan duct and the filament inside burning and charring upwards got. I'm refraining from using the "F" word, but you get the idea...

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Re: Thermal-Protector - available soon to all

Postby Jetguy » Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:53 pm

Here is a video demonstrating the reason why the safety board is "required". https://www.dropbox.com/s/fjs8fpjxlwvmq ... e.mp4?dl=0

Not said in the video, but that is official Raise 3D touch version Version 0.9.7 - January 16, 2018 and Marlin firmware N2-Dual 1.1.6rev1 straight from the downloads page. This is not a firmware issue, this is a hardware issue but again, wanted to show that the test is demonstrated with current up to date versions of the firmware.

Jetguy
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Re: Thermal-Protector - available soon to all

Postby Jetguy » Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:09 pm

Here is the second video demonstrating what the modification or this free "thermal protection board" is intended to do to resolve the issue noted in the first video. The modification now causes instant detected of the cable failure, even with an intermittent break that may go undetected by other means. Basically, if the mainboard is disconnected from the temperature sensor, it will near instantly throw an error message and stop the print in a controlled safe manner. Often in a way that the print can be recovered after the fault is repaired.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/iy58623rz6o0q ... n.MTS?dl=0

If you are a Minions fan, I put a tiny clip in this one to add some humor to this serious topic.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/n2tdaex2cv7xd ... s.mp4?dl=0
Last edited by Jetguy on Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

DS2017
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Re: Thermal-Protector - available soon to all

Postby DS2017 » Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:31 pm

I'm planning on making a large purchase (like three N2+, and more in the future) with an institution that I'm affiliated with. Will those be fine or do I have to order and make these fixes separately?

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Thermal-Protector - available soon to all

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:49 am

DS2017 wrote:I'm planning on making a large purchase (like three N2+, and more in the future) with an institution that I'm affiliated with. Will those be fine or do I have to order and make these fixes separately?


Since both thermal protector and filament run-out sensor are both at pre-order stage, we don't have any stock on hand by now to ship with your new machine order. It is better for you to directly make contact with our sales team to check out which way is the easiest way for you to get the protector. Shoot us a mail to sales@raise3d.com

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basilfawlty
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Re: Thermal-Protector - available soon to all

Postby basilfawlty » Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:21 am

Since you providing these to users for free (thank you!), do we have the option of adding a run out sensor and getting free shipping on both units?
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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Thermal-Protector - available soon to all

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:06 am

basilfawlty wrote:Since you providing these to users for free (thank you!), do we have the option of adding a run out sensor and getting free shipping on both units?


Sorry, but we can only provide free shipping for thermal protector.

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Re: Thermal-Protector - available soon to all

Postby RiserDog » Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:06 am

Just wondering if these have shipped yet or has anyone gotten theirs?

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Re: Thermal-Protector - available soon to all

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:48 am

The first batch of protectors is already in the shipping process.


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