Thermal-Protector - available soon to all

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JohnSays
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Re: Thermal-Protector - available soon to all

Postby JohnSays » Thu May 17, 2018 1:44 am

Got my Filament Run-out Sensors two days ago but there were no Thermal-Protection parts with it. I understood that thermal protection would be included. Note that I did ask for it on the web site.
- John
2 Raise3D N2 Duals, V2 nozzles, Bondtech BMGs, adjustable table, Panucatt SD2224 drivers, run-out sensor, thermal overload protection resistors on motion controller board, Firmware 1.1.8ABH - with Lin_Advance, Palette+

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Thermal-Protector - available soon to all

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Thu May 17, 2018 12:46 pm

JohnSays wrote:Got my Filament Run-out Sensors two days ago but there were no Thermal-Protection parts with it. I understood that thermal protection would be included. Note that I did ask for it on the web site.


Yes, it should be included. Please shoot a mail to sales@raise3d.com.

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Billucas
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Re: Thermal-Protector - available soon to all

Postby Billucas » Thu May 17, 2018 1:53 pm

tulsah wrote:Has anyone in Canada received there's yet?


Mine is in Montreal at the custom border at Dorval since a week!

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JohnSays
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Re: Thermal-Protector - available soon to all

Postby JohnSays » Thu May 17, 2018 2:04 pm

I have since added thermal protection by soldering 1M ohm resistors to the motion controller board TC0 and 1 pinouts. They seem to be working well. As you will see in another post, they have already detected a bad ribbon cable on one of my machines.
- John
2 Raise3D N2 Duals, V2 nozzles, Bondtech BMGs, adjustable table, Panucatt SD2224 drivers, run-out sensor, thermal overload protection resistors on motion controller board, Firmware 1.1.8ABH - with Lin_Advance, Palette+

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JohnSays
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Re: Thermal-Protector - available soon to all

Postby JohnSays » Thu May 17, 2018 4:56 pm

zemlin wrote:There are ribbon cables designed for high flex life
https://www.digikey.com/en/product-high ... life-cable


Does anyone know how to obtain a small quantity of this cable? I have only found it for sale as 100' x 10 @ about USD $292/100'. So, about USD $3,000 to get any.
- John
2 Raise3D N2 Duals, V2 nozzles, Bondtech BMGs, adjustable table, Panucatt SD2224 drivers, run-out sensor, thermal overload protection resistors on motion controller board, Firmware 1.1.8ABH - with Lin_Advance, Palette+

Alex M.
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Re: Thermal-Protector - available soon to all

Postby Alex M. » Thu May 17, 2018 5:14 pm

I don't have access to the printer right now so is this the 14 conductor 28awg flex cable? If so, you can probably use any flex that matches those specs, for example this one at digikey.

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JohnSays
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Re: Thermal-Protector - available soon to all

Postby JohnSays » Thu May 17, 2018 6:29 pm

Yes, I know I can use any 28 awg 14 strand flat cable. The point is that the 3M HF319/14 can flex 25 million times. I know of no other cable that can come close so I am asking around.
Last edited by JohnSays on Fri May 18, 2018 2:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.
- John
2 Raise3D N2 Duals, V2 nozzles, Bondtech BMGs, adjustable table, Panucatt SD2224 drivers, run-out sensor, thermal overload protection resistors on motion controller board, Firmware 1.1.8ABH - with Lin_Advance, Palette+

Alex M.
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Re: Thermal-Protector - available soon to all

Postby Alex M. » Thu May 17, 2018 6:48 pm

Ok, it's true the 3M cables claim 25 million flex and the Cicoil only have 10 Million flex (See Cicoil Cable Life Expectancy) but you can buy Cicoil at 5' for $19 or 10" for $37. It's still a good "flex" cable with great specs.

I was just trying to point out that there are more options than just the 3M high flex cables, which are available in smaller quantities.

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JohnSays
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Re: Thermal-Protector - available soon to all

Postby JohnSays » Thu May 17, 2018 9:48 pm

Okay, I didn't realize that that particular cable was a 10 million flex. I had looked at Cicoil flex cables and did not recognize that cable as an EZ-Flexx cable. Thank you for sharing it. Cicoil is my second choice, but because of availability, may be my only choice for a high flex cable -- which is what you are be pointing out.

Edit: I have just spent more time looking at the Cicoil IDC cables and they are not called EZ-Flexx, but Hi-Flex. However, they are exactly what I was looking for. Interestingly, they also use 40 strands just like the 3M HF319 IDC cables. Thanks for pointing this particula cable out to me. I am ordering these right now.
- John
2 Raise3D N2 Duals, V2 nozzles, Bondtech BMGs, adjustable table, Panucatt SD2224 drivers, run-out sensor, thermal overload protection resistors on motion controller board, Firmware 1.1.8ABH - with Lin_Advance, Palette+

Alex M.
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Re: Thermal-Protector - available soon to all

Postby Alex M. » Thu May 17, 2018 10:04 pm

Did a bit more digging and found a Molex F28H19S-14-050-N at Mouser. Can't quite find the flex rating but it does have the same stranding as the 3M cable so I assume it's close. Also can't figure out the purchase units (I'm assuming foot) but at a Qty of 10 it's only $50.

Edit: Looking at the Cicoil Product Overview PDF, they claim to have 66 base strands on their flex cable which should be much better than the 19 base strands of the 3M or Molex.

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JohnSays
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Re: Thermal-Protector - available soon to all

Postby JohnSays » Thu May 17, 2018 10:30 pm

That 66 base strands is for the 24 awg wire. I am getting the 28. I ordered 25 feet to have more than enough for two printers plus spare cable.
- John
2 Raise3D N2 Duals, V2 nozzles, Bondtech BMGs, adjustable table, Panucatt SD2224 drivers, run-out sensor, thermal overload protection resistors on motion controller board, Firmware 1.1.8ABH - with Lin_Advance, Palette+

lami3d
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Re: Thermal-Protector - available soon to all

Postby lami3d » Sun May 20, 2018 1:35 pm

Jetguy wrote:
3DWP wrote:@Jetguy Yeah I figured that it may be the easiest to just cut the same pin in stead of trying to pry the little thing out probably damaging it. If it's not used anyway it's no problem. Thanks for the extensive info!


Being dead honest, I'm sad they overlooked this detail as it is a problem and not everyone is willing or able (for all the same reasons why I said the direct mainboard soldering mod- not everyone would do it), this was supposed to be plug and play.

Worse, we've waited all this time for this to finally ship, and meanwhile just this week, a new user probably completely oblivious to the topic had a major overheat from a ribbon cable failure and completely missed the warning signs that this would have prevented. Flat out, that incident and potential damage simply would not have been able to happen.


i'm agree with you and you wrote this 1.5 month ago and it's not yet in the Raise3D installation instructions available on the website.
Last edited by lami3d on Sun May 20, 2018 4:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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JohnSays
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Re: Thermal-Protector - available soon to all

Postby JohnSays » Sun May 20, 2018 2:39 pm

Alex M. wrote:Did a bit more digging and found a Molex F28H19S-14-050-N at Mouser. Can't quite find the flex rating but it does have the same stranding as the 3M cable so I assume it's close. Also can't figure out the purchase units (I'm assuming foot) but at a Qty of 10 it's only $50.

Edit: Looking at the Cicoil Product Overview PDF, they claim to have 66 base strands on their flex cable which should be much better than the 19 base strands of the 3M or Molex.


Yes, it's a foot. Now that is the way to sell this stuff to an end user. However, I paid $93 for 25 ft and this would be $150 -- all plus shipping.

2018-05-20_10-32-40.jpg
- John
2 Raise3D N2 Duals, V2 nozzles, Bondtech BMGs, adjustable table, Panucatt SD2224 drivers, run-out sensor, thermal overload protection resistors on motion controller board, Firmware 1.1.8ABH - with Lin_Advance, Palette+

aereus
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Re: Thermal-Protector - available soon to all

Postby aereus » Mon May 28, 2018 8:46 pm

I received my thermal protection sensor, however, it does not fit! The connector from the main board is way too big and does not attach into the new connector provided. Anyone else having this problem?

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Thermal-Protector - available soon to all

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Wed May 30, 2018 8:01 am

aereus wrote:I received my thermal protection sensor, however, it does not fit! The connector from the main board is way too big and does not attach into the new connector provided. Anyone else having this problem?


I guess you may wrong remove the terminal on motion board together with the ribbon cable as some batches have glue applied inside.
If you'd like to share a picture, people here are all willing to help check.

FreedomRules
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Re: Thermal-Protector - available soon to all

Postby FreedomRules » Sat Jun 02, 2018 4:16 am

JohnSays wrote:
Alex M. wrote:Did a bit more digging and found a Molex F28H19S-14-050-N at Mouser. Can't quite find the flex rating but it does have the same stranding as the 3M cable so I assume it's close. Also can't figure out the purchase units (I'm assuming foot) but at a Qty of 10 it's only $50.

Edit: Looking at the Cicoil Product Overview PDF, they claim to have 66 base strands on their flex cable which should be much better than the 19 base strands of the 3M or Molex.


Yes, it's a foot. Now that is the way to sell this stuff to an end user. However, I paid $93 for 25 ft and this would be $150 -- all plus shipping.

2018-05-20_10-32-40.jpg


Do you like the flex cable you got? Is there a logical reasoning behind choosing the 19 conductor over the 7 conductor. If my memory serves me correct signal travels on the outside of the strands so does more strands mean more a more solid signal? I'm assuming everyone is just reusing the same ends. Mine has started to exhibit issues that are pointing to the same cable. I poured over the spare parts and find it perplexing that as much as these seems to be an issue with alot of users the not only is the part not for sale but Raise3D hasn't stepped up to the plate to rectify the situation.

MDVolle
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Re: Thermal-Protector - available soon to all

Postby MDVolle » Sat Jun 02, 2018 5:49 am

Just a note about high flex cables - there are a LOT of engineering issues related to actually achieving "super high flex life" and some of those issues revolve around the type of connectors used and the terminations -

Connectors that are designed to provide very good performance on 7 or 19 strand conductors can fail completely on 61 strand conductors - IDC type connectors are rated for a specific range of stranding to achieve their performance specification. Some crimp type terminals are as well - although they often work OK with a much wider range of constructions.

Soldering is great but you have to support the section near the solder joint because it no longer provides high flex life - and it fatigues with shock and vibration.

As for the ribbon cable in the N2 gantry feed, it really isn't much of a challenging environment mechanically - by industrial standards, its quite moderate - so actual cable failures should be investigated for other causes as well. I'm sure that with a ton of printing it can fatigue but the cables on my thermocouples cracked and broke, one shorted and my ribbon cable is still looking fine.

I worked on systems exposed to 20g + shock and vibration - every detail counts and not all of them are immediately intuitive. In really extreme environments, routine scheduled replacement is the only reasonable solution even when the two year replacement cost is over $150,000.00 - (per machine).

Fortunately, if you wanted to replace your ribbon cable every year, just to be sure, it would only be about $20 and I would be amazed if they actually wear out that fast.

tulsah
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Re: Thermal-Protector - available soon to all

Postby tulsah » Tue Jun 19, 2018 3:51 pm

I registered for the thermal protector months ago and have not heard or received anything to date. When can I expect to receive? Thanks.

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Thermal-Protector - available soon to all

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:58 pm

tulsah wrote:I registered for the thermal protector months ago and have not heard or received anything to date. When can I expect to receive? Thanks.


Please shoot an email to sales@raise3d.com including your pruchase/request information, such as contact information, shipping address.

silverbuggy
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Re: Thermal-Protector - available soon to all

Postby silverbuggy » Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:01 am

Hi, is this thermal protector included in new shipments of N1?


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