Printer failure

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Raess
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Printer failure

Postby Raess » Fri Feb 09, 2018 8:05 pm

Hi, I was just printing my first big part. A 136h job. After 100h everything went wrong.

Got this error messages
First I got this one:

1FA36C85-9BD7-4F98-8053-D3C9158D96F9.jpeg


Then I try to recover and the printer start and working for around 5 min then this error:
DF400C31-DF4E-4813-8DA0-61DA375A2182.jpeg


Now I cant pre lheat the Extruder anymore and I cant print anything. I had to cancel the job due it’s starting to smell strange.

Please can someone tell me what’s happening? Would love the reason and how to fix before I try again and don’t waste anymore filament :(
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Jetguy
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Re: Printer failure

Postby Jetguy » Fri Feb 09, 2018 8:31 pm

The second error, because you restarted the controller or turned off the machine caught the failure- you have a might have a ribbon cable failure. It's either partially unplugged or failing from flexing.
Ribbon cable.jpg


The first error message is one I have warned about. The ribbon cable breaks connection and is NOT immediately detected. If this happens when the current reported temp is just under the setpoint temp, then the mainboard is telling the heater to heat up faster to reach the setpoint. The problem is, again, the ribbon cable is NO longer sending current temp of the heater block back to the mainboard. This means the heater can heat the block well past the intended setpoint. Then the cable flexes from movement of the extruder head and makes contact again, sending the real current temp that is MUCH hotter than it should be and trips the safety code.

Check your ribbon cable connection and strongly suggest you either perform the safety mod or get on Raise 3D about the safety board being bundled in the not yet released filament detector kit. Even though the starting title says N1, this topic is applicable to all 3 models of printer. viewtopic.php?f=4&t=6131&hilit=ribbon+cable Read all of it so you understand what is going on here.

Jetguy
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Re: Printer failure

Postby Jetguy » Fri Feb 09, 2018 8:33 pm

I had to cancel the job due it’s starting to smell strange.


Again, exactly what I said has happened. You experienced a very real thermal runaway event. This is when the mainboard does NOT know the real temperature of the actual heater. We have identified this, we have engineered fixes. Raise 3D has even engineered a plug in solution.
Now it's just a matter of getting it to folks and ensuring they install it.

Raess
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Re: Printer failure

Postby Raess » Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:54 pm

Thanks Jetguy! I checked the cables around the head added som extra security and then it start working again. How can make sure that the setup is solid now before I start a big print again? Any test I could do? Preheat and move around the head along the build area? And see if the temperature is stabilized?

Here is a pic of the install
033EE063-6549-46A8-B43F-4995B18B897A.jpeg


Quite annoying that this could happened. Wasted 2kg filament :-( I will buy the runout sensor and bundle when it’s available here in Sweden.

Ones again thanks!
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Jetguy
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Re: Printer failure

Postby Jetguy » Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:23 pm

I know I'm supposed to have this great answer for you on how you can test and that is "the problem". There is no easy test on a stock system. This is why that safety board or the safety mod exists so that the motherboard can detect the failure. Again, sorry, this is a dicy subject in that I wish he had an instant resolution. Best advice is secure the cable. I personally used hot glue even though the picture I pasted earlier showed a zip tie, I found that carefully using hot glue (which can be removed later when required just by putting a bit of alcohol on the glue joint) this gave me an extra secure connection. I'd love to use locking connectors but since I created the resistor modification and applied it to my printers and tested this dozens of time, the fix works. If my cable fails, instantly I get an error and the printer stops- but in a way I can resume the print again after fixing the printer. This is unlike now where you went undetected for some time, and then had a real thermal runaway even and could have had a heck of a problem.

Raess
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Re: Printer failure

Postby Raess » Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:26 pm

And 30 min later the problem is back. :( now I Cant even start the machine without getting the error on startup.
error:
IMG_1730.jpg


and here is the log:

Code: Select all

2018-02-10T00:10:12.521 CET| raisetouch| serial: Log for Raise Touch version=0.9.2.1026, Firmware version=1.1.6, Printer type=Raise3D N2Plus serialno=10111742025
2018-02-10T00:10:14.349 CET| raisetouch| serial: start
2018-02-10T00:10:14.349 CET| raisetouch| serial: echo:Marlin1.1.6
2018-02-10T00:10:14.353 CET| raisetouch| serial: echo: Last Updated: Feb 11 2017 18:40:36 | Author: (none, default config)
2018-02-10T00:10:14.353 CET| raisetouch| serial: Compiled: Feb 11 2017
2018-02-10T00:10:14.357 CET| raisetouch| serial: echo: Free Memory: 2712 PlannerBufferBytes: 1232
2018-02-10T00:10:14.361 CET| raisetouch| serial: echo:V16 stored settings retrieved (327 bytes)
2018-02-10T00:10:14.361 CET| raisetouch| serial: echo:Steps per unit:
2018-02-10T00:10:14.365 CET| raisetouch| serial: echo: M92 X80.00 Y80.00 Z800.00 E140.00
2018-02-10T00:10:14.365 CET| raisetouch| serial: echo:Maximum feedrates (mm/s):
2018-02-10T00:10:14.369 CET| raisetouch| serial: echo: M203 X300.00 Y300.00 Z5.00 E25.00
2018-02-10T00:10:14.369 CET| raisetouch| serial: echo:Maximum Acceleration (mm/s2):
2018-02-10T00:10:14.374 CET| raisetouch| serial: echo: M201 X9000 Y9000 Z100 E10000
2018-02-10T00:10:14.374 CET| raisetouch| serial: echo:Accelerations: P=printing, R=retract and T=travel
2018-02-10T00:10:14.378 CET| raisetouch| serial: echo: M204 P1000.00 R3000.00 T1000.00
2018-02-10T00:10:14.386 CET| raisetouch| serial: echo:Advanced variables: S=Min feedrate (mm/s), T=Min travel feedrate (mm/s), B=minimum segment time (ms), X=maximum XY jerk (mm/s), Z=maximum Z jerk (mm/s), E=maximum E jerk (mm/s)
2018-02-10T00:10:14.390 CET| raisetouch| serial: echo: M205 S0.00 T0.00 B20000 X12.00 Z0.40 E5.00
2018-02-10T00:10:14.390 CET| raisetouch| serial: echo:Home offset (mm):
2018-02-10T00:10:14.390 CET| raisetouch| serial: echo: M206 X0.00 Y0.00 Z0.00
2018-02-10T00:10:14.390 CET| raisetouch| serial: echo:PID settings:
2018-02-10T00:10:14.394 CET| raisetouch| serial: echo: M301 P14.49 I0.80 D65.52
2018-02-10T00:10:14.394 CET| raisetouch| serial: echo:Filament settings: Disabled
2018-02-10T00:10:14.394 CET| raisetouch| serial: echo:Z-Probe Offset (mm):
2018-02-10T00:10:14.398 CET| raisetouch| serial: echo: M851 Z-0.15
2018-02-10T00:10:14.792 CET| raisetouch| serial: Error:0
2018-02-10T00:10:14.792 CET| raisetouch| serial: 0: Extruder switched off. MINTEMP triggered !
2018-02-10T00:10:14.792 CET| raisetouch| serial: Error:Printer sto



any idé where I should start the troubleshooting? What cable could cause this error?
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Raess
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Re: Printer failure

Postby Raess » Sat Feb 10, 2018 12:15 pm

So I think I have Found which connection that is causing my errors.
IMG_1733.jpg


When I remove it and viggle the cables around bit and then reinstall it the printer starts with no error And I can preheat.


So I will try to use some hot glue on this to see if this solves my issues.
A little disappointed with the quality of this.
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Noren
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Re: Printer failure

Postby Noren » Sat Feb 10, 2018 12:39 pm

When you have secured that. Start the printer. Disengage the motors. And move the carriage around to see if you get any errors. And also move the round cable tube around. I do think the error is more likely to be a break in the flat ribbon cable.

Raess
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Re: Printer failure

Postby Raess » Sat Feb 10, 2018 1:14 pm

Now I have found the problem after som hours. Sorry for the bad picture but i think its quite clear where the problem is. I Think this is unacceptable for a 2 months old machine.
IMG_1741.jpg
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Noren
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Re: Printer failure

Postby Noren » Sat Feb 10, 2018 1:18 pm

Sorry to see. I have to replace mine. Twice. :(.
I bought cable and connectors and press tool for the connectors from Conrad.se. (They have sites in other countries as well.).

If you want it up and running today you can cut the cable and solder the wires.

Raess
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Re: Printer failure

Postby Raess » Sat Feb 10, 2018 1:44 pm

Thanks Noren. I got a tips to replace the standard flat cable with a chainflex cable. I will look in more to this.
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Squenz
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Re: Printer failure

Postby Squenz » Sat Feb 10, 2018 5:57 pm

Raess wrote:Thanks Noren. I got a tips to replace the standard flat cable with a chainflex cable. I will look in more to this.



Let's hear about that !

Raess
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Re: Printer failure

Postby Raess » Sat Feb 10, 2018 6:25 pm

Squenz wrote:
Raess wrote:Thanks Noren. I got a tips to replace the standard flat cable with a chainflex cable. I will look in more to this.



Let's hear about that !


https://www.igusab.se/chainflex/unharnessed-cable

Have not yet found a 14lead. But maybe works with 12+2.
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Squenz
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Re: Printer failure

Postby Squenz » Sat Feb 10, 2018 6:33 pm

There's Lapp Kabel 0028880, 14x014 ,,, unfortunately, i didn't find a source for less than 100 m delivery. They are less than 5 kms away from me, maybe i give them a call on monday.

Raess
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Re: Printer failure

Postby Raess » Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:04 pm

Hm let me know IF You find it:-)

I am Also back in business with temporary fix until I can find a good cable.
8975F6C8-5370-436F-8562-DC2F91BDA3C1.jpeg

D50EB992-CF84-4DF6-BAA8-4A5DA20457A2.jpeg
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Noren
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Re: Printer failure

Postby Noren » Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:07 pm

I would like to know if you find connectors for the flex cables as well.

Squenz
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Re: Printer failure

Postby Squenz » Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:16 pm

Congrats, i bit a rough repair, but hey, whatever it takes !!!

I've done the same thing, absolutely !! !!

On a sidenote, to me, it looks like this damage didn't come up from normal use. To me, it looks like the ribbon wire most likely was kinked during intial install. I can't imagine how this severe damage might occur when the head is moving during printing. It is hard to judge, but even if it wouldn't be the case here, another point to get away from the ribbon wire.

I'll give them a call on monday. I have a customer number at Lapp Kabel, i'll see what they have to say.
Last edited by Squenz on Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Squenz
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Re: Printer failure

Postby Squenz » Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:24 pm

Noren wrote:I would like to know if you find connectors for the flex cables as well.



There's no way to find a fitting connector for this cable chain wire to a 2x7 Pin post connector.

You have to place each of the 14 strands to the right pin on the connectors and use a tool to push them down, maybe a LSA Tool (used to lay up network cables onto patch field connectors) could help with this. Once all 14 strands are at their right place, use a ribbon wire tool to press on the upper half of the connector.

If everything fails, bring up your tiny, pointy tip soldering iron and solder them wires on the cutting side of the 2x7 post connector.

Raess
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Re: Printer failure

Postby Raess » Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:39 pm

@Squenz Yeah, Its a temp fix until I can find a better solution. No you are probably right that this damage it´s not done with a normal usage (that seems quite unlikely). Anyways I don't think i will not hassle with the support for this. Yet Raise3D should really check over for an alternative solution for the ribbon cable if they want to increase the quality and customer satisfaction.

Thanks!
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Raess
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Re: Printer failure

Postby Raess » Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:54 pm

What about this one guys https://www.igusab.se/product/1071
its available at 14x0.14



https://www.tme.eu sells them, they have 6 different cables from chainflex for around 5 euro /meter and minimum order is 5meter.
Whats the name/type of the 14pin connectors on the boards of raise3D?
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