Will I produce poor quality objects if I have the top cover on the printer while printing PLA?

Thoughts about Raise3D, 3D printing and making in general.
newraiseuser
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Will I produce poor quality objects if I have the top cover on the printer while printing PLA?

Postby newraiseuser » Sun Feb 04, 2018 5:35 am

Hello, somewhere I read that the top cover is for printing ABS and it should be removed while printing PLA. Is this recommended? Will the print quality be affected (in a negative way) if I keep the top cover on the printer while printing using PLA?

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Mecha_Monster
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Re: Will I produce poor quality objects if I have the top cover on the printer while printing PLA?

Postby Mecha_Monster » Sun Feb 04, 2018 7:20 am

Hello and welcome to the community!.

Well, PLA is a "low" temperature material; the cooler the environment the better for the printing process. Too much heat and the filament will soften, driving it impossible for the motors to push it through the extruder.
The acrylic cover of the printer is quite good keeping the chamber cozy and warm. if you keep it while printing PLA, it is very likely that the inner temp will reach the "softening" point of the material and the extruder may clog. Also, the wam temp will slow down the cooling of the extruded plastic, so printing will be like puting a new layer of materian on top of a muddy not fully hardened one.

Of course all of this depends on the ambient temp, just keep in mind that a hot chamber = pushing a wet spaghetti through the extruder.

newraiseuser
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Re: Will I produce poor quality objects if I have the top cover on the printer while printing PLA?

Postby newraiseuser » Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:03 pm

Mecha_Monster wrote:Hello and welcome to the community!.

Well, PLA is a "low" temperature material; the cooler the environment the better for the printing process. Too much heat and the filament will soften, driving it impossible for the motors to push it through the extruder.
The acrylic cover of the printer is quite good keeping the chamber cozy and warm. if you keep it while printing PLA, it is very likely that the inner temp will reach the "softening" point of the material and the extruder may clog. Also, the wam temp will slow down the cooling of the extruded plastic, so printing will be like puting a new layer of materian on top of a muddy not fully hardened one.

Of course all of this depends on the ambient temp, just keep in mind that a hot chamber = pushing a wet spaghetti through the extruder.


Thanks Mecha_Monster, can't the machine adjust the temperature automatically when PLA is used so that even when the cover in on, it can still produce great print?

I am trying to find a way to reduce the fume leaked to my small, poorly ventilated, room.

zemlin
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Re: Will I produce poor quality objects if I have the top cover on the printer while printing PLA?

Postby zemlin » Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:55 pm

newraiseuser wrote:Thanks Mecha_Monster, can't the machine adjust the temperature automatically when PLA is used so that even when the cover in on, it can still produce great print?

I am trying to find a way to reduce the fume leaked to my small, poorly ventilated, room.


The machine has no means to control the temperature of the air inside the enclosure. The heat generated by the bed and nozzle(s) causes the air inside the enclosure to warm significantly. This is great for many materials, but not PLA.

If you want to get rid of fumes, your best bet would be to add a duct to the cover with an exhaust fan and run a flex hose out a window. Leave a door on the cabinet open and this will draw room air into the enclosure and exhaust it outside. This could be troublesome for materials that want a hot box, but if you only plan to run PLA this could work for you.

Ari
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Re: Will I produce poor quality objects if I have the top cover on the printer while printing PLA?

Postby Ari » Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:21 pm

To follow up on Zemlin's advice. The N2 is not completely sealed and therefore you will get fumes enter your room.

If you are limited for space to locate the printer I think you will need to carefully choose the type of filaments you use and set up an external extraction system that is able to change the room air periodically. A hood positioned over the printer would be the best option as it could operate even with the printer's top cover in place so that any leakage of fumes get pulled outside. With some clever thinking you could probably devise a method to allow easy removal when you are not printing. e.g. a fabric based hood supported above the printer and an in-line extraction fan connected with flexible plastic pipe placed out of the window.

Choose a fan that will provide sufficient air flow for the size of room, most DIY suppliers have them.

newraiseuser
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Re: Will I produce poor quality objects if I have the top cover on the printer while printing PLA?

Postby newraiseuser » Sun Feb 04, 2018 4:05 pm

Thanks Zemlin and Ari. To give you a better understanding of my environment, I have post a photo of it under the thread "Has any user done anything to address health-related issues during 3D printing?".

Ari: Do you have a photo of the setup you mentioned?

EldRick
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Re: Will I produce poor quality objects if I have the top cover on the printer while printing PLA?

Postby EldRick » Sun Feb 04, 2018 4:55 pm

A room air filter with HEPA particle and activated carbon: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001RUS05E

Ari
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Re: Will I produce poor quality objects if I have the top cover on the printer while printing PLA?

Postby Ari » Sun Feb 04, 2018 7:21 pm

@newraiseuser

"Ari: Do you have a photo of the setup you mentioned?" - No it was only a theoretical suggestion.

Having viewed the photo you pasted in the other thread I would seriously question whether you actually have room for a N2+. May be others have done it but a bedroom is really not the ideal place when the risks/effects of fumes are not that well documented.

However, if after careful consideration you still wish to proceed then I would certainly take measures to extract and replace the room air whilst printing and probably for sometime after. As mentioned previously, careful selection of filament is advised, who knows what some obscure brands of fliament might contain, particularly if manufactured in countries with poor H&S records.

newraiseuser
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Re: Will I produce poor quality objects if I have the top cover on the printer while printing PLA?

Postby newraiseuser » Sun Feb 04, 2018 7:46 pm

Thanks EldRick. I considered such purifiers but somewhere I read that they can only filter the large particles. UFP generated by 3D printer are at 0.012-0.116 microns. These nano particles are the dangerous ones.
http://www.fabbaloo.com/blog/2017/9/21/ ... -emissions


Thanks Ari. Yes, I can put a N2+ in my bedroom if health is not a concern. My room has a footprint of about 280x380 cm^2. The printer can also be put in the bathroom but as it blocks the path of the door, I cannot keep the door closed.

About the selection of filament. Definitely! Which brands are safer and work well with the N2/N2+?

The Up Box+ printer is another option as it got a built-in filtration system. However, the filaments are made in China and nobody knows what they used to make the filaments. If the filaments are made of unhealthy components, having a built-in filtration system may not be of a great advantage.
Last edited by newraiseuser on Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Mecha_Monster
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Re: Will I produce poor quality objects if I have the top cover on the printer while printing PLA?

Postby Mecha_Monster » Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:02 am

Besides my RaiseN2, I have acces to various Stratasys machines @ work.
Even those high-end machines requires a ventilation system that extracts the air. I mean, those machines have air filters, but still the manufacturer sells and recommend to install an additament that expells the fumes through a vent systems.
I think that even with the most noble filament, you still need to place the machine in a well ventilated area.

newraiseuser
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Re: Will I produce poor quality objects if I have the top cover on the printer while printing PLA?

Postby newraiseuser » Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:23 pm

Mecha_Monster wrote:Besides my RaiseN2, I have acces to various Stratasys machines @ work.
Even those high-end machines requires a ventilation system that extracts the air. I mean, those machines have air filters, but still the manufacturer sells and recommend to install an additament that expells the fumes through a vent systems.
I think that even with the most noble filament, you still need to place the machine in a well ventilated area.


Yes indeed. Given the situation of the window shown in the photo, I hope that some members in the community could suggest a good solution.

DS2017
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Re: Will I produce poor quality objects if I have the top cover on the printer while printing PLA?

Postby DS2017 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:43 pm

You don't need a top cover for good quality prints. But I've found that parts of my prints that bridge come out way better with the top cover off (the PLA is cooling faster).

Fortunately we run a N2+ in a huuuuge office. So I can't comment on how to ventilate.

newraiseuser
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Re: Will I produce poor quality objects if I have the top cover on the printer while printing PLA?

Postby newraiseuser » Sun Feb 11, 2018 2:49 pm

OK. I should keep the top cover off when printing PLA. Will putting the printer right in front of or below the window in the Winter (without/without snow) produce poor quality prints? I suppose the cold weather would affect the printing.

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Will I produce poor quality objects if I have the top cover on the printer while printing PLA?

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:39 am

If the ambient temperature is below 5C degree, you cannot operate the machine any more. Actually, we don't recommend to run the machine below 10-15C degree.

newraiseuser
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Re: Will I produce poor quality objects if I have the top cover on the printer while printing PLA?

Postby newraiseuser » Mon Feb 12, 2018 2:04 pm

Vicky@Raise3D wrote:If the ambient temperature is below 5C degree, you cannot operate the machine any more. Actually, we don't recommend to run the machine below 10-15C degree.


Thanks Vicky. The current temperature outside is -7c. I am concerned that putting the printer on top of a desk so that it is close to the window might not work. In other threads, some users mentioned that I should take away the top cover if I want to print good quality PLA. In this case, will putting the top cover on to keep the build volume warm produce good quality prints?

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Will I produce poor quality objects if I have the top cover on the printer while printing PLA?

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:26 am

This problem should be checked from the two sides.
First you may need to confirm the ambient temperature of the place you will leave the machine at. If the ambient temperature is lower than 5C, the thermocouples inside the nozzle will detect and report MinTemp error, then you cannot run the machine.
And for better quality of PLA printing, to make the printed out result to get a better surface, it needs proper cooling. If all the chamber is enclosed, there will have no fresh cooling air inside the system.

newraiseuser
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Re: Will I produce poor quality objects if I have the top cover on the printer while printing PLA?

Postby newraiseuser » Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:09 pm

Vicky@Raise3D wrote:This problem should be checked from the two sides.
First you may need to confirm the ambient temperature of the place you will leave the machine at. If the ambient temperature is lower than 5C, the thermocouples inside the nozzle will detect and report MinTemp error, then you cannot run the machine.
And for better quality of PLA printing, to make the printed out result to get a better surface, it needs proper cooling. If all the chamber is enclosed, there will have no fresh cooling air inside the system.


Thanks Vicky. So in the case of printing PLA, I always leave the top open. I just have to try out various room locations?

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Will I produce poor quality objects if I have the top cover on the printer while printing PLA?

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:01 pm

If you can ensure the ambient temperature won't be lower than 5C (higher than 15C will be more recommended), then the machine can run properly.
For PLA printing, fresh cooling air is better for proper cooling to shape the printed out material well.

newraiseuser
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Re: Will I produce poor quality objects if I have the top cover on the printer while printing PLA?

Postby newraiseuser » Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:41 pm

Vicky@Raise3D wrote:If you can ensure the ambient temperature won't be lower than 5C (higher than 15C will be more recommended), then the machine can run properly.
For PLA printing, fresh cooling air is better for proper cooling to shape the printed out material well.


Thanks Vicky. What do you think if I add a window fan (one for sucking the fume out and the other for bringing in the air) and place the printer near it?

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Will I produce poor quality objects if I have the top cover on the printer while printing PLA?

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:11 am

If it won't affect the ambient temperature and doesn't blow direct air to printing surface, it won't affect printing result a lot.


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