New N1 not printing in the center of the bed

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ExLondoner
Posts: 29
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 6:39 am
Location: DMV

New N1 not printing in the center of the bed

Postby ExLondoner » Fri Aug 25, 2017 9:52 pm

Hello,

Just finished setting up the N1 that arrived today, however upon sending the first print it is printing off center, more towards the right cutting off part of the print.

Any help would be great.

TIA

Jetguy
Posts: 1599
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 1:40 am

Re: New N1 not printing in the center of the bed

Postby Jetguy » Sat Aug 26, 2017 12:05 am

Did you choose the correct machine type in ideamaker?
The machine will attempt to print code made for the N2 and N2 Plus but obviously cannot and that code will print far off the bed.
Attachments
Ideamaker machien type.jpg

Jetguy
Posts: 1599
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 1:40 am

Re: New N1 not printing in the center of the bed

Postby Jetguy » Sat Aug 26, 2017 12:21 am

Again, looking back through your posts, I know you have one of the larger model printers (N2, N2Plus) and were asking to use Ideamaker to connect to more than one printer. Yes, you absolutely can do this- a few of this do this every day. You also absolutely can slice for the N2 and then the N1, but it is critical that you pay extra attention to ensure you have the correct printer chosen when slicing the model and creating the gcode. The upload of the file and choosing what machine to upload is a later step and important too- nothing worse than going over to the machine and finding out you sent the file to the wrong machine. Again, nothing prevents you from sending the wrong gcode to the wrong machine.

If you send N2/N2Plus gcode to a N1 printer, it prints far off center and may be cutoff
If you send N1 gcode to an N2 or N2 Plus- it also prints off center but will print because the machine is bigger than the N1 and thus the build area is fine.

All N series are corner 0 coordinate machines. They home to X0 and Y0 in the front left corner and positive coordinates are right and back. The slicer is what centers the object in the logical gcode coordinates. If you choose the wrong profile, a centered test cube center- understand the coordinate difference. The dead center of an object for an N1 is coordinate X102.5 Y102.5 (1/2 of 205mm maximum XY) but the centered coordinate for an N2 and N2 plus object is (1/2 of 305mm) or 152.5mm XY. Well on the N1 if the center of the print is already shifted over N2/N2Plus style at 152.5mm you only have 52.5mm before you run out of the build area.

ExLondoner
Posts: 29
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 6:39 am
Location: DMV

Re: New N1 not printing in the center of the bed

Postby ExLondoner » Sun Aug 27, 2017 9:42 pm

Hi JetGuy, thanks for your response.

Yes, that was the issue, thanks for you help!

The only one issue I'm facing now is the print quality. I did level the bed using a piece of paper on all four corners, however after 30 mins into the print I see the nozzle scraping into the print and a bad finish resulting.

Jetguy
Posts: 1599
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 1:40 am

Re: New N1 not printing in the center of the bed

Postby Jetguy » Sun Aug 27, 2017 10:12 pm

Pictures go a long way to helping sort out print quality problems.
First layer leveling should not be affecting a print 30 min in- so unless you printed some huge first layer they aren't related.

ExLondoner
Posts: 29
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 6:39 am
Location: DMV

Re: New N1 not printing in the center of the bed

Postby ExLondoner » Sun Aug 27, 2017 10:55 pm

Here are two pics depicting the issue.

Thanks as always.
Attachments
Image (19).jpeg

Jetguy
Posts: 1599
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 1:40 am

Re: New N1 not printing in the center of the bed

Postby Jetguy » Sun Aug 27, 2017 11:13 pm

Probably should open a separate thread or topic related to print quality issue. Looking at that print, I see under extrusion meaning the commanded amount or distance of linear raw filament pushed into the nozzle in the upper layers (which I know print faster than base layers) means your extruder was either skipping steps or not gripping the filament. You described this as the nozzle scratching the layer. I find that to be a totally inaccurate and unhelpful description and not at all what is going on based on that picture. The issue was under extrusion on top surfaces resulting in tips of bad extrusion warping up.

This is not so much a settings thing, this is properly setting up the machine for the filament and diagnosing a print problem issue.
Yes, you could in theory slow down and maybe make this print slightly better, but at the same time the extra time will generally be unacceptable. The right answer is properly diagnosing the extruder mechanical cause of under extrusion.
Either it was skipping steps (making an audible thumping or ticking/clicking sound)
Or
Lack of that sound and yet under extrusion means it was slipping and grinding the filament- evidenced by there being colored filament dust in the feed path visible under the clear stock extruder cover. If it slips- this means the user needs to adjust the motor mounting slightly to push the drive gear closer to the V groove idler wheel.

The key here is, there are 2 parts to an extruder, the feeder system pushing the fillament and the hotend and cold end heatsink "system" melting that filament. They must work together to ensure proper extrusion. If you have a slightly clogged nozzle- that makes back pressure and harder to push the filament into the extruder. That can either expose a grip problem in the feeder section or if the clog is bad enough and grip is good enough the motor skips steps because it cannot overcome the clogged nozzle.
Other things that can cause this symptom include printing PLA with the top lid installed or if the extruder cold sections become too warm either from motor heat or general ambient temp- this caused PLA to become soft and sticky and bind up long before it reaches the hot nozzle giving a similar symptom.
Attachments
Under extrusion.jpg

Jetguy
Posts: 1599
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 1:40 am

Re: New N1 not printing in the center of the bed

Postby Jetguy » Sun Aug 27, 2017 11:28 pm

Again, some facts here. The slow base layers printed with what appears to be good finish in the picture as shown. You said 30 minutes into the print you had problems, but per the picture I see weak infill indicating a problem as soon as you got a few layers in. Knowing that these problem layers print faster than the much slowed down base layers but also keep in mind that time for components to heat up also happens. So faster speed is more pressure the feeder has to provide to keep up and the battle ensued and the bottom line is, you lost horribly here. The printer simply was unable for whatever reason to push the required filament into the extruder and out the nozzle.

The "why" behind it not pushing the commanded filament is again a mechanical issue be it grip or back pressure. Because 1 thing is guaranteed- the printer tried to turn that extruder motor the correct distance and corresponding linear length of filament, but either lack of grip, or backpressure causing skipped steps from some root cause resulted in under extrusion.

This is exactly what we expect. A marginal extruder (remember, this is a system of multiple components working together) will typically do OK in the slow low backpressure part of a print. It's when speed and ambient heat and other factors all kick in and that nozzle has to flow more plastic and when it cannot something has to give- either the feeder skips steps (the preferred failure mode) VS slipping and grinding (the one you absolutely want to avoid at all costs). The logic behind why skipping steps is preferred is the car stuck in mud example. If you keep spinning the gear and grinding a divot in the filament, with a fixed distance between the gear and the V-groove idler the gear can no longer push filament even if backpressure drops to 0. If you grip so good the motor skips steps it's constantly trying to push the filament and when the backpressure reduces or clears from ether lowering speed or whatever condition is causing the backpressure, the extruder begins extruding again. Again, if you grind filament- that's game over, the extruder likely will not self recover from the hopefully temporary fault condition. The grinding filament extruder is never able to transfer the full maximum force of the motor to the filament. So again, it fails sooner the instant drag or backpressure increases.


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