Need help with printing Poly Support

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Julia Truchsess
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Re: Need help with printing Poly Support

Postby Julia Truchsess » Sun May 08, 2016 7:23 pm

walshlg wrote:
Julia Truchsess wrote:This is a controversial topic, but personally I like to smear glue stick on the Buildtak. Maybe this "defeats" the way Buildtak is supposed to work, but it works for me, and maybe it's also why I don't experience the problem of parts being "too stuck" that's been reported by others. I scribble the glue stick all around the area where the print is going to be, then I smear it into a thin film with a damp paper towel. For prints with little bottom surface area, or mostly support in contact with the bed, using a raft can help a lot with adhesion too.


does that also aid with removing too tightly adhered prints?


As I mentioned, I haven't had any problems with parts being "too stuck". Whether that's due to the use of glue stick or just because I lead a charmed life, I don't know :)

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Need help with printing Poly Support

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Mon May 09, 2016 3:18 am

tomcnv wrote:Thanks, the bed temp at 60 made it stick real good, but was able to remove without an issue. The electronics cover printed fine, except for a little jog at the top of the round fan housing. It joged over for a few layers, then returned to the original x-axis spot. I thought this was strange. It is not supposed to know where the x-axis is supposed to be. The inside of the round section is very rough and stringy. I can clean it up but it's not neat. I upped the temp to 220 which could have caused the rough inner printing.


The jog looks like under-extrusion. Maybe the filament got stuck there by some cases. And it can back to normal a few minutes later. You can check the filament spool and the extruder cover. Check whether the filament is loaded freely.

Knaps
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Re: Need help with printing Poly Support

Postby Knaps » Thu Jun 23, 2016 1:07 pm

Need help to slice my model it make a big cocoon all around!?
cocoon.jpg


260temps pla

240 polysupport

65bed t

.01mm quality

Zettlinger
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Re: Need help with printing Poly Support

Postby Zettlinger » Thu Jun 23, 2016 1:34 pm

the cocoon is a wipewall to try and prevent oozing on the model. (you can turn it off under ooze to test what it ends up like. if you turn it off increase retraction somewhat)

Knaps
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Re: Need help with printing Poly Support

Postby Knaps » Thu Jun 23, 2016 1:59 pm

good it was wipewall and yeah i need to tune retraction, it make a mess thx

EL Cuajinais
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Re: Need help with printing Poly Support

Postby EL Cuajinais » Sat Jun 25, 2016 4:14 am

Julia Truchsess wrote:
walshlg wrote:
Julia Truchsess wrote:This is a controversial topic, but personally I like to smear glue stick on the Buildtak. Maybe this "defeats" the way Buildtak is supposed to work, but it works for me, and maybe it's also why I don't experience the problem of parts being "too stuck" that's been reported by others. I scribble the glue stick all around the area where the print is going to be, then I smear it into a thin film with a damp paper towel. For prints with little bottom surface area, or mostly support in contact with the bed, using a raft can help a lot with adhesion too.


does that also aid with removing too tightly adhered prints?


As I mentioned, I haven't had any problems with parts being "too stuck". Whether that's due to the use of glue stick or just because I lead a charmed life, I don't know :)

I would guess that definitely defeats the BuildTak purpose. You may as well flip the build plate and smear the gluestick on glass; save yourself some glue do to the smoothness of the glass. Around my 3rd week with my N2 I accidentally ripped a hole in my BuildTak while attempting to scrape a stuck print. What a happy accident that turned out to be. I proceeded to scrape the entire BuildTak off; got myself some Aquanet and have not looked back. Better release, and I get to choose how my bottom surface comes out. When a print does get stuck, you can easily see it from the other side of the plate and rub ice in the precise location to see it pop off the plate. No need to put that large plate on the freezer anymore.

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jetdillo
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Re: Need help with printing Poly Support

Postby jetdillo » Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:31 am

Julia Truchsess wrote:Oh, also, Polysupport is really soft, slippery, and stretchy, and so may slip in the stock Raise feeder. Have a close look at what's happening if you continue to have failures to see if feeder slippage is the issue. Various mods to fix slippage have been discussed elsewhere here.


Have you published a Polysupport profile for you that work somewhere here ?

jon_bondy
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Re: Need help with printing Poly Support

Postby jon_bondy » Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:49 pm

Raise3D used to sell lots of different filaments, but right now, they only seem to sell 3 kinds of PLA. @jetdillo: where did you find the Poly Support to purchase?

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Julia Truchsess
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Re: Need help with printing Poly Support

Postby Julia Truchsess » Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:00 pm

EL Cuajinais wrote:
Julia Truchsess wrote:
walshlg wrote:
does that also aid with removing too tightly adhered prints?


As I mentioned, I haven't had any problems with parts being "too stuck". Whether that's due to the use of glue stick or just because I lead a charmed life, I don't know :)

I would guess that definitely defeats the BuildTak purpose. You may as well flip the build plate and smear the gluestick on glass; save yourself some glue do to the smoothness of the glass. Around my 3rd week with my N2 I accidentally ripped a hole in my BuildTak while attempting to scrape a stuck print. What a happy accident that turned out to be. I proceeded to scrape the entire BuildTak off; got myself some Aquanet and have not looked back. Better release, and I get to choose how my bottom surface comes out. When a print does get stuck, you can easily see it from the other side of the plate and rub ice in the precise location to see it pop off the plate. No need to put that large plate on the freezer anymore.


Yeah, I ditched the BuildTak long ago and switched to PEI, it works a treat with no glues or sprays. I do use Aquanet and glass on another printer.

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jetdillo
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Re: Need help with printing Poly Support

Postby jetdillo » Thu Apr 12, 2018 5:51 pm

jon_bondy wrote:Raise3D used to sell lots of different filaments, but right now, they only seem to sell 3 kinds of PLA. @jetdillo: where did you find the Poly Support to purchase?


I actually got it off the Raise3D store site a couple weeks ago, right about the time I bought another V2 HotEnd.
I just checked the site again and noticed that the PolyPC, PolySupport and other non-Raise3D filaments are not there anymore.

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jetdillo
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Re: Need help with printing Poly Support

Postby jetdillo » Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:22 pm

I'm still having problems getting anything else to print w/ PolySupport BTW. I've managed to dual-extrude with 2 different PLAs with different temperature profiles to print successfully. I've been able to print out any number of things w/ PolySupport by itself. When dual-extruding with PolySupport, it doesn't seem to matter which extruder I use, but the PLA side inevitably jams up and starts clicking, sometimes before it even does its first layer.
I've tried all sorts of temperature profiles, different brands(Hatchbox,Zentoolworks,AIO), different tensions on my Bondtech.

If I use Polysupport for my brim or raft as well as support, that prints out fine, but the PLA side usually doesn't even start when the printer goes to do the extruder switch.

If I use PLA as my primary material, I will get one layer, then the switch to PolySupport, then clicking and nothing for the switch back.
I've read through the message threads here, I'm using the Raise3D PolySupport profile, I've scoured the web elsewhere. I'm stumped.

Any further thoughts, tips, profiles, etc. would be appreciated.
Being able to do this sort of work is one of the main reasons I went with a dual extruder printer like this.

DS2017
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Re: Need help with printing Poly Support

Postby DS2017 » Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:32 pm

jetdillo wrote:I'm still having problems getting anything else to print w/ PolySupport BTW. I've managed to dual-extrude with 2 different PLAs with different temperature profiles to print successfully. I've been able to print out any number of things w/ PolySupport by itself. When dual-extruding with PolySupport, it doesn't seem to matter which extruder I use, but the PLA side inevitably jams up and starts clicking, sometimes before it even does its first layer.
I've tried all sorts of temperature profiles, different brands(Hatchbox,Zentoolworks,AIO), different tensions on my Bondtech.

If I use Polysupport for my brim or raft as well as support, that prints out fine, but the PLA side usually doesn't even start when the printer goes to do the extruder switch.

If I use PLA as my primary material, I will get one layer, then the switch to PolySupport, then clicking and nothing for the switch back.
I've read through the message threads here, I'm using the Raise3D PolySupport profile, I've scoured the web elsewhere. I'm stumped.

Any further thoughts, tips, profiles, etc. would be appreciated.
Being able to do this sort of work is one of the main reasons I went with a dual extruder printer like this.


You're saying that non-Polysupport extruder clicks when printed with polysupport on the other extruder?
But this never happens when you dual extrude with both regular PLA filament?

If so, that's weird behavior. Only explanation I can come up with is that the polysupport is overextruding, resulting in thicker layer height. So when the main extruder tries to print on top, the gap is very thin due to the thickened layer from Polysupport. This restricts the amount of filament that's trying to come out of the nozzle, causing a backup, therefore building pressure inside the nozzle, and finally the extruder gear can't push it, with the inevitable clicking. Hope that makes sense.

I tried PolyMaker PLA and polysupport dual extrude to print a Hilbert cube successfully without much trouble.
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:16343

Try lowering the flowrate on both extruders as much as you can, and raise the temp.
edit: also try thicker layer height, like 0.2mm

edit2: if your main extruder starts clicking before laying down ANY filament (that is after switching from the polysupport extruder), then all of the above is moot.

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jetdillo
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Re: Need help with printing Poly Support

Postby jetdillo » Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:45 pm

DS2017 wrote:
jetdillo wrote:I'm still having problems getting anything else to print w/ PolySupport BTW. I've managed to dual-extrude with 2 different PLAs with different temperature profiles to print successfully. I've been able to print out any number of things w/ PolySupport by itself. When dual-extruding with PolySupport, it doesn't seem to matter which extruder I use, but the PLA side inevitably jams up and starts clicking, sometimes before it even does its first layer.
I've tried all sorts of temperature profiles, different brands(Hatchbox,Zentoolworks,AIO), different tensions on my Bondtech.

If I use Polysupport for my brim or raft as well as support, that prints out fine, but the PLA side usually doesn't even start when the printer goes to do the extruder switch.

If I use PLA as my primary material, I will get one layer, then the switch to PolySupport, then clicking and nothing for the switch back.
I've read through the message threads here, I'm using the Raise3D PolySupport profile, I've scoured the web elsewhere. I'm stumped.

Any further thoughts, tips, profiles, etc. would be appreciated.
Being able to do this sort of work is one of the main reasons I went with a dual extruder printer like this.


You're saying that non-Polysupport extruder clicks when printed with polysupport on the other extruder?
But this never happens when you dual extrude with both regular PLA filament?

If so, that's weird behavior. Only explanation I can come up with is that the polysupport is overextruding, resulting in thicker layer height. So when the main extruder tries to print on top, the gap is very thin due to the thickened layer from Polysupport. This restricts the amount of filament that's trying to come out of the nozzle, causing a backup, therefore building pressure inside the nozzle, and finally the extruder gear can't push it, with the inevitable clicking. Hope that makes sense.


It does. I will try to lower the flowrate further on the PolySupport side and see if I that helps.
I'm currently printing PolySupport at 240C w/ 90% flowrate, PLA at 220 w/ 94% flowrate, 0.4mm nozzles on both extruders. The other interesting thing is that even with the clicking, I'm usually able to pre-load it and unload it successfully. There are tracks on the PLA filament after unloading but not much evidence of the gears actually chewing away on it. Maybe I should increase flow on the PLA side?

My first layer height is 0.3mm and subsequent layers are 0.2mm. I haven't tried altering the first-layer height yet.

I tried PolyMaker PLA and polysupport dual extrude to print a Hilbert cube successfully without much trouble.
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:16343

Try lowering the flowrate on both extruders as much as you can, and raise the temp.
edit: also try thicker layer height, like 0.2mm

edit2: if your main extruder starts clicking before laying down ANY filament (that is after switching from the polysupport extruder), then all of the above is moot.

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jetdillo
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Re: Need help with printing Poly Support

Postby jetdillo » Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:23 pm

DS2017 wrote:
I tried PolyMaker PLA and polysupport dual extrude to print a Hilbert cube successfully without much trouble.
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:16343

If I could get the Hilbert cube to print successfully, I would be the happiest 3D printing geek around :)
I have much bigger parts that I want to print out that have equally complex support requirements, but that's a first step.

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jetdillo
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Re: Need help with printing Poly Support

Postby jetdillo » Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:25 pm

jetdillo wrote:
DS2017 wrote:
I tried PolyMaker PLA and polysupport dual extrude to print a Hilbert cube successfully without much trouble.
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:16343

If I could get the Hilbert cube to print successfully, I would be the happiest 3D printing geek around :)
I have much bigger parts that I want to print out that have equally complex support requirements, but that's a first step.


I had some partial success last night.
20180415_232327.jpg


The print failed about halfway through because one part of the PolySupport was pulling up and was not laying down correctly.
The left extruder did not click! :)

I increased the left extruder flow-rate to 102% and added 0.5mm restart w/ a temp of 220C.
The right extruder w/ the Polysupport has temp of 240C, 85% flow rate, 2.5mm retraction at 40mm/sec.
Wipe tower instead of a wipe-wall.
Both of them continued to drip and ooze all over the place, but this is at least progress.

DS2017
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Location: San Diego

Re: Need help with printing Poly Support

Postby DS2017 » Tue Apr 17, 2018 4:29 pm

jetdillo wrote:The print failed about halfway through because one part of the PolySupport was pulling up and was not laying down correctly.
The left extruder did not click! :)

I increased the left extruder flow-rate to 102% and added 0.5mm restart w/ a temp of 220C.
The right extruder w/ the Polysupport has temp of 240C, 85% flow rate, 2.5mm retraction at 40mm/sec.
Wipe tower instead of a wipe-wall.
Both of them continued to drip and ooze all over the place, but this is at least progress.


Gonna be honest, I only have a handful of successful dual extruder polysupport prints.
It's very tricky and it depends on the type of print if it's going to work or not.
I use Polysupport as a last resort option, when the print is so complex with inner supports that are difficult to take off.


The drip and ooze is the biggest issue, especially when you are working with such high temp.
I try to print with the lowest temp possible to reduce cross contamination


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