Surface quality on tall prints

Thoughts about Raise3D, 3D printing and making in general.
sroyland
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:12 am

Surface quality on tall prints

Postby sroyland » Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:18 am

I have been having some issues with surface on tall prints.
The first 20-30cm are perfect every time, but after that it gets rougher and rougher.
Here is a picture of bottom and top half of a 50cm cylinder.
Any suggestions?
Got the printer about 2 weeks ago, and it has been like this from the start.
And I have NOT tightened the 8 screws on z-axis ballscrew.
Attachments
20170403_094502.jpg
20170403_094429.jpg

User avatar
walshlg
Posts: 1342
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2016 12:01 pm

Re: Surface quality on tall prints

Postby walshlg » Mon Apr 03, 2017 3:07 pm

certainly looks like a bit of Z wobble, always suspicious of the part being struck - did you try insulating your hotend?

sroyland
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:12 am

Re: Surface quality on tall prints

Postby sroyland » Mon Apr 03, 2017 5:36 pm

I have not tried to insulate the hotend, because all prints that are lower than 25cm are very good, so it should not be anything with the hotend. But I suspect something with the z axis or overheating steppers on z axis maybe.

User avatar
Mecha_Monster
Posts: 153
Joined: Wed May 11, 2016 2:07 am
Location: Mexico
Contact:

Re: Surface quality on tall prints

Postby Mecha_Monster » Mon Apr 03, 2017 6:23 pm

As you move farther away from the embedment (section adhere to the plate) the stress applied to the print increases and it waggles, it may be more noticeable in your print because it is thin and tall. Maybe slowing it down after 25cm by decreasing the feedrate?

sroyland
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:12 am

Re: Surface quality on tall prints

Postby sroyland » Wed May 24, 2017 9:20 am

The problems seems to go away if I open the doors and remove the lid on the electronics box. I am only printing PLA at 205c and 55c on bed. Are the drivers really overheating at these low temperatures?

cullymoto
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2017 7:32 pm

Re: Surface quality on tall prints

Postby cullymoto » Wed May 24, 2017 11:48 am

When printing with pla, you want everything open. No lid, open door, even open the side door.
Pla - the more open, the better.
Pla warps if it isn't cooled thoroughly and immediately. This may not be your only problem, as tall prints will amplify any bed movement issues, but having the machine closed up for pla it's a big no no

3dlabs
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:10 pm

Re: Surface quality on tall prints

Postby 3dlabs » Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:11 pm

I'm having the exact same problem. The ball screws are not tightened. Can you confirm it was the machine being closed up that caused this ultimately?

I had the top lid open with 3d printed stands and all of the doors closed.

3dlabs
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:10 pm

Re: Surface quality on tall prints

Postby 3dlabs » Sun Dec 17, 2017 10:29 pm

Can you confirm that opening up the printer doors and lid were your problem long term? I am having the exact same problem am hoping it's not z-wobble on a brand new machine. I had the lid propped up with printed stands and doors closed during the print. Going to stage some tests later today with it all opened up to see if that resolves the issue.

User avatar
Michael.P@Raise3D
Posts: 198
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 4:51 pm
Location: Costa Mesa
Contact:

Re: Surface quality on tall prints

Postby Michael.P@Raise3D » Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:22 pm

For this issue, I would be inclined to believe that the printer is not at fault but the design its self is bound to have issues, @3dlabs, I would ask that if you are having something similar you post some pictures for us to reference.

Thank you,
Michael Petitclerc, Technician
Tel: +888 963 9028
Web: http://www.raise3d.com

zemlin
Posts: 90
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2017 2:02 pm

Re: Surface quality on tall prints

Postby zemlin » Tue Dec 19, 2017 1:14 am

Stuff expands and contracts with temperature changes. A tall tower will amplify those movements. The hardware is not likely at fault, but the material properties and temperature fluctuations in the enclosure. Opening up the doors will likely help keep the temps constant and reduce the movement of the plastic part.

3dlabs
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:10 pm

Re: Surface quality on tall prints

Postby 3dlabs » Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:46 pm

Michael.P@Raise3D wrote:For this issue, I would be inclined to believe that the printer is not at fault but the design its self is bound to have issues, @3dlabs, I would ask that if you are having something similar you post some pictures for us to reference.

Thank you,


Hi Michael,

I have attached a 300mm tall piece of baseboard that was printed vertically where the problem slowly presents itself the farther up it goes. All doors were open including the side and top lid removed. No difference for me either way.
Attachments
Photo-2017-12-21-09-39-20_0798.JPG
Photo-2017-12-21-09-39-37_0799.JPG

User avatar
jmp
Posts: 193
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2016 12:20 pm

Re: Surface quality on tall prints

Postby jmp » Fri Dec 22, 2017 3:30 pm

3dlabs wrote:
Hi Michael,

I have attached a 300mm tall piece of baseboard that was printed vertically where the problem slowly presents itself the farther up it goes. All doors were open including the side and top lid removed. No difference for me either way.


Something that tall and thin is going to sway a little when you get that high, I'm not sure there is any way to fix it unless you did some scaffolding on the side to give it a bigger base. I don't think this is a printer problem, this is a physics problem.
RL Name: Jason Preuss Thingiverse: JMP Youtube:http://youtube.com/c/patterntoprint Website: http://www.patterntoprint.com

User avatar
Casale8
Posts: 97
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2017 5:17 pm
Location: The Real Upstate New York

Re: Surface quality on tall prints

Postby Casale8 » Fri Dec 22, 2017 5:04 pm

3dlabs wrote:
Michael.P@Raise3D wrote:For this issue, I would be inclined to believe that the printer is not at fault but the design its self is bound to have issues, @3dlabs, I would ask that if you are having something similar you post some pictures for us to reference.

Thank you,


Hi Michael,

I have attached a 300mm tall piece of baseboard that was printed vertically where the problem slowly presents itself the farther up it goes. All doors were open including the side and top lid removed. No difference for me either way.

This is possibly where the speed of a printer should be able to be controlled by layer(s). - now shown in IM 3.0.5...
-SCC
“One man's "magic" is another man's engineering. "Supernatural" is a null word.” -R.A.Heinlein

3dlabs
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:10 pm

Re: Surface quality on tall prints

Postby 3dlabs » Fri Dec 22, 2017 11:50 pm

Thanks for the feedback guys. I also suspected the models being tall and thin and swaying/wobbling being the culprit. I'm in the process of printing a huge model the full height of the Z axis that should hopefully not sway and rule out any z issues.

User avatar
basilfawlty
Posts: 68
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2016 5:29 am

Re: Surface quality on tall prints

Postby basilfawlty » Thu Jan 04, 2018 4:11 am

I had a similar issue printing tall parts. When the print head moves around, the printer also moves a bit. Some movement is unavoidable. As others have mentioned, it's just physics. I reduced the effect by putting my printer on the floor. Having it on a table made it extra wobbly. I actually considered bolting the printer's frame to the wall, but I redesigned my part instead.

It's a problem worth addressing though. What's the point of owning an N2+ if the tall stuff looks terrible?
Raise3D N2+

3dlabs
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:10 pm

Re: Surface quality on tall prints

Postby 3dlabs » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:42 pm

basilfawlty wrote:I had a similar issue printing tall parts. When the print head moves around, the printer also moves a bit. Some movement is unavoidable. As others have mentioned, it's just physics. I reduced the effect by putting my printer on the floor. Having it on a table made it extra wobbly. I actually considered bolting the printer's frame to the wall, but I redesigned my part instead.

It's a problem worth addressing though. What's the point of owning an N2+ if the tall stuff looks terrible?


I printed another very large tall part that had a wider base and it did not really exhibit the problem on that part.

User avatar
Michael.P@Raise3D
Posts: 198
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 4:51 pm
Location: Costa Mesa
Contact:

Re: Surface quality on tall prints

Postby Michael.P@Raise3D » Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:19 pm

Hi basilfawlty,

The problem of the part wobbling is not really a problem with the printer so much as the part/material limitations. In almost all printers you will encounter this if you take a thin hollow object and make it tall. Some wobble of the printer could cause the part to have a degraded quality but I am more inclined to side with the part its self wobbling to be the major cause. The reason I would side like this is because of the parts referenced in this post are all fitting that description of tall and hollow. This is not to say there would be no merit in locking the machine down but I do not believe this to be the solution at this time.
Michael Petitclerc, Technician
Tel: +888 963 9028
Web: http://www.raise3d.com

User avatar
basilfawlty
Posts: 68
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2016 5:29 am

Re: Surface quality on tall prints

Postby basilfawlty » Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:25 pm

I can only speak from my experience. When the machine wobbles, the part wobbles too, and wobbles more the taller it gets. If the machine wobbles less, the part wobbles less.
Raise3D N2+


Return to “General”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests