Bad adhesion of Buildtak

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RA1981
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Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2017 7:56 pm

Bad adhesion of Buildtak

Postby RA1981 » Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:54 pm

Hi,

I've read about people having problems with Buildtak and removing the finished parts from it. For me, I've the problem that the material doesn't adhere well on some spots. The material curls up (using the filament which was included with the N2) on different points.
What I haven't figured out yet is if there's a way to get better adhesion again (e.g. cleaning). On a first look I thought it's some kind of warping, but even using the bottom fan blocks didn't help and since always the same spots are affected it doesn't seem to be general warping.

Are there any suggestion for refurbishing BuildTak or an alternative bed material?

Regards

ABH
Posts: 69
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2016 7:31 pm

Re: Bad adhesion of Buildtak

Postby ABH » Tue Mar 14, 2017 7:53 pm

This happens to me also, that the BuildTak stops working.
I have had great success by sanding the BuildTak surface slightly with a grade 240 sandpaper. I use a flat sanding machine, but a hand sander will also work. Then I thoroughly clean off the fine dust using soap water. The BuildTak will work as new after that.
I have the impression that the BuildTak doesn't like ABS/ASA. After having printed items with ABS/ASA, what I normally don't do on BuildTak, then it's as if PLA sticks less to the BuildTak. This is only my feeling though, -I might be wrong.
I'm very careful not destroying the surface of my BuildTak. Therefore it lasts very long and the surface just need to be rejuvenated once in a while using the sanding process.

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redUFO
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Re: Bad adhesion of Buildtak

Postby redUFO » Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:15 pm

What bed temps are you using?

I can't get nothing, and I mean nothing to stick to the buildtak unless I use a raft. But even then I put down quite a bit of elmers glue sticks. So you might want to get used to buying a 30 pack of elmers glue sticks as you'll use them left and right.

Also if my bed temp is not around 55c or higher parts don't stick well. I've had pretty good luck just putting down a good coat of Elmers and getting the bed temp over 55. Give that a try!
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RA1981
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Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2017 7:56 pm

Re: Bad adhesion of Buildtak

Postby RA1981 » Wed Mar 15, 2017 6:52 am

Hi,

okay, I'll try the sandpaper.

My temperatures are 210°C for the nozzle and 80°C for the bed, currently using the yellow PLA filament which was included with the printer.
Sometimes I can also see that the first line doesn't stick to the bed, causing the line moving with the extruder. However, I check the Z-height adjustment every week with the 0.2mm feeler gauge, so this shouldn't be the problem.

That's why I think that the BuildTak is damaged in someway or at least needs to be refurbished. Anyway, I think I should replace the BuildTak with something that doesn't need to be always observed during the first layers - I want to print and not to sit in front of the printer observing the first layers ;)

Regards

ABH
Posts: 69
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2016 7:31 pm

Re: Bad adhesion of Buildtak

Postby ABH » Wed Mar 15, 2017 12:07 pm

You cannot get anything to stick on any surface if you use the Raise3D recommendations of using a z-gap of 0.2 mm, at least not if your first layer height is 0.2 mm or below.

All slicer programs assume that there's 0 (zero) gap between the nozzle tip and the bed surface. The Z-position for printing the first layer will be set to x mm above the bed surface (Z home position), where x equals the height of the first layer. The amount of plastic extruded for the first layer will correspond to the slicers assumption of zero gap between the nozzle and the bed surface. The nominal volume of the extruded plastic will be exactly what corresponds to squishing the circular plastic profile from the nozzle into a rectangular profile of "layer height" times "extrusion width", i.e. it will correspond to the model being build with 100% plastic without any air between traces.

If there's a Z-gap in real life, either because you deliberately adjusted the nozzle-to-bed gap to something larger than 0, for example 0.1 mm or 0.2 mm (Raise3D recommendation is 0.2 mm), or because it's physically impossible to avoid an average gap between the nozzle and the bed surface because of a bending bed, then you have to apply some tricks in the 1'st layer printing parameters to be able to obtain bed adhesion and to avoid what looks like under-extrusion in the first many layers.

I have my Z-gap adjusted to 0.1 mm and despite this small gap I still like to do the following tricks to achieve close to 100% filling in the first printed layer:

In ideaMaker:
If the Z-gap is 0.1 mm, then set the first layer height to 0.2 mm and the first layer flow rate to 120 to 150%.
Simplify3D:
If the Z-gap is 0.1 mm, then set the first layer height to 0.2 mm and set Z-offset (G-Code tab) between -0.05 mm and -0.1 mm.

ABH
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Re: Bad adhesion of Buildtak

Postby ABH » Wed Mar 15, 2017 12:50 pm

I never used any extra glue or stuff on the BuildTak and I have excellent adhesion of the first layer print for PLA. For large items it's nearly too much adhesion as it's sometime difficult to remove the printed part from the bed.
I also never use rafts, as I like the nice surface I get from printing directly on the BuildTak with full volume filling :D
For ABS/ASA I use abs juice on kapton tape on glass. It gives extreemely good adhesion and a very nice surface of the printed parts.

RA1981
Posts: 25
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2017 7:56 pm

Re: Bad adhesion of Buildtak

Postby RA1981 » Wed Mar 15, 2017 5:12 pm

Hi ABH,

for the adhesion over the whole part I think I've found a good setting in IdeaMaker. The first layer looks good, the problem is that only some regions of the first layer seem to have no good adhesion, which results in curling up. That's why I think the BuildTak surface has lost it's adhesion capability.

Regards

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Mecha_Monster
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Re: Bad adhesion of Buildtak

Postby Mecha_Monster » Thu Mar 16, 2017 5:39 pm

Clean the Buildtak with Isopropyl Alcohol.

Grease, dirt, dust, debris, etc. All that sticks on the surface and interfere with the adhesion. Even by touching the platform you deposit grease/oil of your hands on the plate. Clean it like it own you money, ensure that the height is correct, rise your buildplate temperature and try again :)

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walshlg
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Re: Bad adhesion of Buildtak

Postby walshlg » Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:30 pm

when buildtac goes it goes quickly. You may need a new sheet

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geekhands
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Re: Bad adhesion of Buildtak

Postby geekhands » Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:04 pm

With the Raise PLA I've been cleaning the bed after each print with 70-90% Isopropyl Alcohol and a paper towel.
I pre-heat the bed to 60 Deg C for 3-5 mins prior to initiating a print. Retain the 60 Deg C throughout the print and keep the lid off.
I've noticed room temperature seems to affect things as well. So far I've been printing with the lid off and my best prints come when the room is about 70-72 Deg F. If the room temp drops it seems to have an impact.

Successfully printing has everything to do with environment. I may wind up printing with the lid on to gauge ambient room temperature.
You'll probably have to experiment to find your particular printers needs.

RA1981
Posts: 25
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2017 7:56 pm

Re: Bad adhesion of Buildtak

Postby RA1981 » Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:17 pm

Hi,

I think I'll try a new bed surface and/or leveling the bed. In the meantime, I'll use PrintaFix spray. Until it seems that at least most of the problems are gone, only some small portions of the current BuildTak sections used still have no adhesion. So I'll also try to use the other sections.

Regards


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