Thoughts about Raise3D, 3D printing and making in general.
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Postby gamemaker » Thu Mar 02, 2017 8:04 am

Would it be possible to buy your electronic and use it for an other 3d Printer, while running Marlin as software?
And what modificaton would ned to make in order of travling with the Extruder in the z and not the heatbed?

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Re: Electronics

Postby Jetguy » Thu Mar 02, 2017 1:31 pm

I cannot speak on buying the eelctronics part, the LCD and custom pcDuino setup is not normally for sale but it doesn't hurt to ask.

On the second part though, nothing needs to be done. You understand that the bed to nozzle is just a relationship. Nozzle nearly touching the bed is position 0, it doesn't matter if the nozzle moves up or the bed moves down, the relationship is nothing but a positive distance value greater than 0. There are examples of Cartesian printers that work either way. The configuration could be identical, the firmware doesn't really care if the nozzle moves up or the bed moves down.

What does matter is understanding Marlin, understanding the configuration.h file and most importantly, the 3 most common motion systems that Marlin supports:
Delta- this is the 3 vertical tower system and the lightweight nozzle AKA effector platform moves in XYZ. Marlin does support this- however, this is a center coordinate zero system that right now, IdeaMaker matching slicing software does not natively show a round build area and center zero coordinate systems.
Cartesian- this is traditional XYZ motion systems where each axis is moved independently. Very straightforward and is what the N series is using
H-Bot/Core XY- this is an alternate form of Cartesian. Typically the XY axis is 2 motors mounted to the frame and a system of belts or other cords is used. The chief advantage of Core XY is the motors are frame mounted- so no worry of a wire system to the motor having to flex as the motor moves (often seen with the X axis motor moving and thus needing a cable to flex as the entire X system also moves in Y). CoreXY is much preferred over H-Bot because H bot puts stresses on the linear bearing and tends to rack the entire gantry from square causing weird and nearly impossible to correct positioning errors under dynamic load. Core XY was developed to fix H-bot and is a balanced system such that no torsional forces are placed on the linear bearings.

Again, the stock Marline code in theory could support alternate motion systems (Core XY or Delta) if the correct settings are put into configuration.h specific to your printer. This is a highly advanced subject and you would be best served with previous 3D printer building experience and not have this be your first go around on custom system.
Again, if this is a Delta, even I have not tried that yet on this firmware branch. We know Cartesian works, and I know and have proven Core XY works.

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Re: Electronics

Postby Jetguy » Thu Mar 02, 2017 1:32 pm

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Re: Electronics

Postby Jetguy » Thu Mar 02, 2017 1:37 pm

Here's my honest advice.
#1 download the source, learn it, configure it for your existing controller and setup the motion type and other parameters. IF you can get this to work for your system- then move forward and ask about buying the LCD and pcDuino front end. This way, you spend no money and figure out if it's going to work before you ever spend a penny.

You don't have to use the motion board based on the RUMBA controller to run your system. What matters is that the firmware source above can be configured to run on your compatible board (a real RUMBA, RAMPS 1.4, or other mega2560 based controller board) and configured to match your system. IF and when you get that working, you are already printing, the next step is mating the matching Raise 3D user interface software running on the pcDuino and touch LCD screen.

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Re: Electronics

Postby firesped » Thu Mar 02, 2017 4:11 pm

This is actually something I am looking at doing with my Trinus system. It has a closed sourced PCB that runs a closed source firmware called Paladin written by Panowin. Kodama is the company selling the Trinus, which is Panowin's F1 printer under another name.

I've managed to find a gcode command that listed the steps per unit for the X, Y, and Z (which are all the same). Which is the key element I needed to look at a 3rd party board for the printer. Having the touchscreen might be interesting but I would probably go for the reprap smart controller as it will probably be far cheaper. I already setup an octoprint RPI for it.

My biggest questions would be if I can use a thermister on the mini board as that is what they setup the extruders with. or if I need to find a thermocouple that is sized for the heat block.

the reason for me to look at the N-series electronics is because right now it is what I am familiar with the most. However, there is a lot of information I don't know about pin outs that I would have to ask about. the Trinus has a laser engraver and I think they are planning a Routing tool. and I don't know how to hook those up. So ultimately the N-series electronics may not be the best option as only raise3d has the full documentation on the controller board.
RL name: Michael Nolen

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Re: Electronics

Postby Jetguy » Sat Mar 04, 2017 5:59 pm

You can use a thermistor, the issue is wiring. It's all in how you configure all this. The breakout board contains 4 devices, 2 MOSFETs for the fans, and the 2 AD597 thermocouple amps. Technically, the signal for temp is still analog.
There's just a lot going on with this system.
For example the breakout has the 12V source for the fan outputs and constant on (could be nice for a LED light at the extruder head).
So the ribbon cable is carrying the following signals and power
12V (powers fans and constant on outputs)
5V (to power the AD597s)
Temp 0 This signal is 10mV per degree C
Temp 1 This signal is 10mV per degree C
MOSFET0 FAN (5V gate drive signal)
MOSFET1 FAN (5V gate drive signal)

The larger 3 pin heavy wire is carrying a single 24V+ signal, and then the 2 heaters are ground return paths to MOSFETs on the mainboard.
Basically, the 24V heater circuit is just changing the 3 pin connector, to 4 screw terminals with the 2 heaters sharing the common 24V + and again, the individual heater return or - lines go back to the mainboard and are connected to ground only when the heater MOSFET for that heater is on.

The mainboard has 3 extra analog inputs for thermistors in a row, each is a 2 pin header and labeled just above the white JST endstop connectors. I don't remember if they have pullups to 5V or not. You may have to add 4.7K pullups.
You just would need to go into the pins.h file in the firmware source (technically Rumba_pins.h if I remember correctly.
So one way, you just use an ultra short ribbon cable to place the breakout beside the mainboard. That gives you all outgoing connections. Then remap the heater 0 and 1 from the pins assigned to the ribbon cable and thus the head breakout AD597s, and instead use those extra thermistor inputs at the mainboard. Then also change the temp sensor type in the configuration.h file from AD597 to the type of thermistor you have connected. All that said, it may be easier and potentially cheaper to just use a real RUMBA board or even other boards will in fact work.

Because at the end of the day, the front panel LCD- which is what you want to use for the interface, just expects to talk to the specific Marlin firmware from the marlin source code provided. That firmware source code can support other motion control boards and types.

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