Is it OK to buy the Pro 2 now?

Thoughts about Raise3D, 3D printing and making in general.
newraiseuser
Posts: 102
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2018 2:58 am

Is it OK to buy the Pro 2 now?

Postby newraiseuser » Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:52 pm

Hi, I recall that there were some issues when they first came out. How about now?

I have used sevearl 3D printers before but if the machine requires lots of fixing, I need to consider other options as there is no dealer in Canada. I am on my own.

claytony565
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon May 07, 2018 4:07 pm

Re: Is it OK to buy the Pro 2 now?

Postby claytony565 » Wed Jan 02, 2019 2:04 pm

I have been using a Pro2 at work for about 10 months now. I have had a few QC issues that still show themselves every once in a while, such as:

When we first received the machine the thermistor wires were crossed over each other ebfore going into the terminal and they would occasionally touch and cause temperature reading errors. This was somewhat of a safety issue because it could cause a thermal runaway situation with no real way of shutting itself off. I don't know if that has actually been addressed or not as I found it and fixed it on my own and stopped reading the blog for a while. The second thing is both of the motor couplers have broken and caused print issues. Raise3D sent us a replacement for both for free after submitting a help ticket. They have since improved the coupler and it should last longer, but time will tell. The last and most recent is the fan duct for the extruder cooling fan has broken and it does not stay in place very well anymore. It is a 3D printed part and it seems as though it just became brittle and broke over time. I am in the process of getting this resolved.

Outside of a few little issues it has been a pretty reliable machine. Until the fan duct broke, there had been 0 issues for about 6 months. I would recommend this machine if you need a large build area and you are looking to print a lot.

newraiseuser
Posts: 102
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2018 2:58 am

Re: Is it OK to buy the Pro 2 now?

Postby newraiseuser » Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:31 pm

Thanks. Is the lack of auto leveling a problem? If I recall correctly, even Raise3D mentioned that there is no need to recaliberate the build plate, sometimes they are not levelled properly due to long transportation.

Since this is such a big and heavy machine, if something goes wrong, besides the lack of local support, it will be too heavy and costly to send it back.

claytony565
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon May 07, 2018 4:07 pm

Re: Is it OK to buy the Pro 2 now?

Postby claytony565 » Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:57 pm

newraiseuser wrote:Thanks. Is the lack of auto leveling a problem? If I recall correctly, even Raise3D mentioned that there is no need to recaliberate the build plate, sometimes they are not levelled properly due to long transportation.

Since this is such a big and heavy machine, if something goes wrong, besides the lack of local support, it will be too heavy and costly to send it back.


We have an N2+ and a Pro2. The Pro2 came much more level from the factory than the N2+. I had to relevel the N2+ but the Pro2 shipped with a calibration print on the bed to show it was level across the board. I have not had to re-level the bed on the Pro2 and I have had no problem printing things that span the full size of the build plate. I have tried PETG and I have had okay luck, but I had to just mess with the bed offset screw to get the first layer right and it was all trial and error. I have stuck with ABS and I don't bother with other materials now.

In the event that you do have to re-level it is not very difficult, just time consuming, and if you do it correctly there should be no need to re-level anytime after that.

KS_Husker
Posts: 106
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2018 2:32 am

Re: Is it OK to buy the Pro 2 now?

Postby KS_Husker » Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:39 pm

I have been using a Pro2 purchased about 4 months ago. It has not given me a single problem. I've been using it non stop. Doesn't matter what brand of filament in ABS, PLA, or PETG. From the cheapest to the best, it prints beautifully with only minor tweaking of the settings.
I did have to re-level it shortly after starting to use it. But since then, it's been perfectly stable. I love this machine!!

crimsonyoshi
Posts: 80
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2018 6:17 pm
Location: Manitoba, Canada

Re: Is it OK to buy the Pro 2 now?

Postby crimsonyoshi » Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:59 pm

I received my first Pro2 pretty well on launch day. That one did have a problem and was replaced fairly quickly with a further batch unit. I've had no real issues with the replacement other than having to change out a filament feeder wire. In fact, I've been able to make some pretty nice prints including polycarbonate (PC-Max) supported by PolySupport (both from Polymaker). I have some robotic lawnmowers at home (4 years now?) and I made some replacement PC-Max wheels for them with hydrophobic coating applied after printing. They turned out real nice! (Pictures can be found in the print settings board on one of my prior threads).

Now, as rose coloured glasses as this sounds, I won't deny there'll be minor stuff here and there. This is not necessarily a turnkey unit, but that really depends on how you use it - if you push current printing boundaries or not! I do have to give their tech support team a shoutout though. They're really good at resolving problems.

claytony565
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon May 07, 2018 4:07 pm

Re: Is it OK to buy the Pro 2 now?

Postby claytony565 » Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:19 pm

+1 for the tech support. I have had relatively little problem getting issues resolved.

ian
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2018 6:26 pm

Re: Is it OK to buy the Pro 2 now?

Postby ian » Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:42 pm

I've had Pro2 plus since June, and it is my first 3D printer. Here's my take. Overall, an amazing machine! I am constantly amazed at what I am able to print, both the finish quality and strength. Here's a breakdown of how I see the good and bad.

The good:
- Ideamaker is very intuitive and has lots of features. Seamless connectivity to upload and monitor prints.
- Overall print quality is spectacular, no zits, very little ghosting, clean retractions, decent overhang performance, supports and rafts come off cleanly, layer lines almost invisible with the right settings and filaments
- Bed was nice and level from the factory (have had to relevel once since)
-I love the clean enclosed concept and it looks very futuristic

The bad:
- There was a significant issue trying to print some PLA blends with the lack of cooling on the extruder motors. I put heatsinks on them, which solved the issue. Raise has since come up with a low current firmware setting to deal with the issue.
- It would have been nice to have a glasd build plate as well, as buildtak is sometimes a real pain and marks/scratches/cuts very easily
- Always on fans are very loud , which is a shame because the stepper motors are quiet and smooth
- No powersaving/sleep feature when not printing
- The camera is a disaster, luckily i rarely need more thank a quick peek to check for a complete fail
- The entire extruder assembly needs a complete rethink. Dealing with filament jams, when they happen, is a traumatizing and time consuming event. Luckily that doesn't happen much now with improved firmware. Nozzle changes are also way more complicated than they should be.

In conclusion, if you need large build volume and want nice, clean functional parts for low volume production or prototyping this is the machine to get. The latest sofware update (firmware/raisetouch/Ideamaker) showed me that most of the early pains have been addressed, and they really stepped up thier game with print quality settings, just what I was hoping for. I am confident more improvements in print quality, strength, and print speeds will be only a matter of software updates in the future.

newraiseuser
Posts: 102
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2018 2:58 am

Re: Is it OK to buy the Pro 2 now?

Postby newraiseuser » Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:49 am

I have two major concerns:

1. Using it in a small bedroom with poor ventilation. Yes there is a HEPA filter but nobody knows how effective it is. In fact, the effect of 3D printing using any printer on health is not well known. Also, as mentioned by another user, the machine is not airtight.

2. There is no local support so if the machine needs repairing, I am on my own. As it is so heavy, the cost of sending it to Raise3D is expensive.

crimsonyoshi
Posts: 80
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2018 6:17 pm
Location: Manitoba, Canada

Re: Is it OK to buy the Pro 2 now?

Postby crimsonyoshi » Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:53 pm

Oh I can definitely weigh in on these!

For #1: I have my machine out in my workshop. HEPA filters are effective down to 5 micron (if that's a merv 8 which I think it is). You answered your own question though and it's true for any printer - nobody really knows what the long term health effects are. It's fairly easy to create a pipe to attach to the outside of your printer fan, and direct that air outside though if you can't get it in a workshop type area.

PLA is plant based, so it's definitely one of the better materials to work with. PVC (equivalent material) is horrid in terms of off gassing material. Again though, #1 is irrelevant for which printer you get, you melt plastic, they're all going to do the same thing. Filters definitely help but nothing will ever truly be 100%.

As for #2 - you can see on the sidebar I'm in the middle of Canada. The closest repair centre is well over 1,000 miles away in the USA. So I have to not only worry about distance, but crossing international borders both ways. Aside from having to send my super early first batch printer back, I've never had to take my printer out of my workshop. And, to Raise3D's credit, they took care of the replacement and the return. Didn't cost me a cent, just two sheets of paper (shipping labels and commercial invoice). Again though, your concern is valid and really applies to anything. When I purchase something, I always expect something to go wrong, and save being pleasantly surprised for when it keeps going right. It's pioneer days for 3D printers still, so you need to be able to roll your sleeves up and get dirty from time to time. I have had to enact the odd fix here and there, but as previously mentioned, tech support is fantastic. They have a huge documentation centre for fixing things, and I'm pretty sure I've helped them add 20-25 pages of new things for how to fix too! :P

newraiseuser
Posts: 102
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2018 2:58 am

Re: Is it OK to buy the Pro 2 now?

Postby newraiseuser » Sat Jan 05, 2019 1:39 am

Thanks.

As I recall, there were some issues (e.g. one nozzle head hitting the model while it is being printed) with dual nozzles configuration of the N2/N2+. How about the Pro2?

crimsonyoshi
Posts: 80
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2018 6:17 pm
Location: Manitoba, Canada

Re: Is it OK to buy the Pro 2 now?

Postby crimsonyoshi » Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:12 pm

I've never had that problem. The Pro2 will retract the non active nozzle upwards by 1-2mm (I haven't taken an actual measurement, so that's just by eyeing it). That ensures the non active nozzle is higher than the printing one.

The nozzles will move depending on which one is active. So if you're printing with PC-Max and PolySupport, the first layer will start with one of them, print all of that material on the layer, then switch to the other nozzle (nozzle retraction happens when one material on the layer is done). It's good to have the wipe wall and tower going for this part too. Second nozzle lowers into position (same height as the first nozzle was), carries on and finishes the layer. Then on the next layer, it continues printing the second nozzle material before switching back to the first and so on. So you get per layer for example: LR-RL-LR-RL (L= Left nozzle, R = Right nozzle) and so on until the end of the print - and nozzle upward retraction happening every time they switch off such that the active nozzle is always at the same correct printing height.

newraiseuser
Posts: 102
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2018 2:58 am

Re: Is it OK to buy the Pro 2 now?

Postby newraiseuser » Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:26 pm

Thanks

Shelton
Posts: 371
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:34 pm

Re: Is it OK to buy the Pro 2 now?

Postby Shelton » Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:50 am

The machine is overpriced and well not finished. Maybe for half of the price. After a few months of fight working very well... but it cost me too much money and effort. Printing head assembly is terrible. This is not module construction. If something goes wrong you are in serious troubles without mechanical skills. Other companies - use fast attach systems. Click and go. Part is wrong? Do you want to change the nozzle? No problem just a few seconds! Try that with PRO...

After cooling mods machine works perfect, before well...

Idea Maker software... is good... but I prefer S3D I want to use other printers also so, for me is a better way. Also faster and better flow calibration and less mess in software windows. S3D is more intuitive.

Last thing. Bed adjustment - calibration. Terrible joke. My plate was skew from the factory. I spent some money on the digital gauge and not easy adjustments. Now is almost ok.


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