Filament Stepper Motors very hot - even when not printing with nozzle

Ronvp
Posts: 52
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:07 pm

Re: Filament Stepper Motors very hot - even when not printing with nozzle

Postby Ronvp » Tue Sep 25, 2018 1:50 pm

I installed the 2 heatsinks referred to in other posts and I must say, it does run substantially cooler even with the top on. I ran a print with a lot of retractions and it now only gets warm to the touch. Note I cut the corners out of the heat sink to retain access to the screws on the motor. I did not install any other fans at all (yet), there should be plenty of circulation from the other fans.. Here are some pics:
Heatsink 1.jpg
Heatsink 2.jpg

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Filament Stepper Motors very hot - even when not printing with nozzle

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Tue Sep 25, 2018 6:22 pm

E3printable wrote:
Vicky@Raise3D wrote:Does it mean that you also have extrusion issue with our premium PLA? If so, please try to make contact with us from http://help.raise3d.com.


Vicky, with all due respect, my customers does not buy this machine to play around with PLA. Not yours, not others. They buy this machine because it is a closed up machine, marketed for ABS, Nylons, business printing. Not printing trinkets from Thingiverse. So please stop asking the same questions over and over, and start listening to what we, the resellers, and our customers are saying:

1.The stepper motors get WAAAAY to hot, the gears get so hot they deform the filament, and it gets stuck.
2. Printing with the lid on is just a dream so far, as it WILL fail after a few hours due to the extreme heat from the steppers, in combination with the heatbed, nozzle, and lack of cooling of the nozzle.
3. Heatcreep is a real problem, not a user error. The biggest problem here is the total blocking of the airsteam in the back of the hotend, blocked by the servo for the head lifting.

So PLEASE start working on the issues instead of trying to place blame everywhere else but the machine. Issue a quick update NOW to limit current to the steppermotors, speed up the fan in the back, and stop blaming everything else.

-Even Andersen
E3printable.no


We are asking the print result of our PLA is only because that we are more familiar with the print result with our PLA as we have run thousands of tests with it. And it is normally the easiest filament customer can get to run a test, as there are two spools coming together with the printer. Based on the print result, we can try to help diagnose the issue. As I mentioned before, we do have some cases being fixed by replacing hotend. I'm afraid some users are facing with hardware issues which may can be fixed by replacing parts. We are willing to help and provide warranty parts, but we need to diagnose the issue.
And we are working on a solution for firmware and software to add motor current control to reduce the affect of the heat from motor based on the feedbacks from customers.
Besides hotend, heat from motor, cooling, extruder tension, print settings, if you have any other idea, we are open to see more different opinions on this issue.
And it's also the reason why we are asking the filament information which are causing print failure to see whether we can get a chance to run some tests from our side to see whether we can find solutions for those filaments.

Ronvp
Posts: 52
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:07 pm

Re: Filament Stepper Motors very hot - even when not printing with nozzle

Postby Ronvp » Wed Sep 26, 2018 6:09 pm

So, I have spend the last 14 hours trying to get a large print to work. I was printing Air in both far and near right corners, but without extruder grinding.

My problem was/is present only with the hood on. I then wondered why only air printing in the far and near right corner. Then I noticed another thing, when in the far right corner while/right before printing air, the X/Y motors were pulling more power(clearly hear that and my UPS shows more power being used) and the extrusion motors were basically stalling (not grinding).

As far as I can tell, with the cover on, the cable guide (chain link), is running out of room (Running in the cover) when in the far corner causing the X/Y motors to draw more power. The issue in the near right corner only happens if printing from far right to near right. Coming from near left to near right, there is no problem. (Coming from Far right to near right, the motors have to pull harder..)

To be clear: while printing the raft, I can repeat this every time. Just put the hood on, print air in the corners, take hood off, no air print.

I hope you guys can fix this with a software update?? I really need to be able to print on the whole plate..

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 3:54 am

Re: Filament Stepper Motors very hot - even when not printing with nozzle

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:50 pm

Ronvp wrote:So, I have spend the last 14 hours trying to get a large print to work. I was printing Air in both far and near right corners, but without extruder grinding.

My problem was/is present only with the hood on. I then wondered why only air printing in the far and near right corner. Then I noticed another thing, when in the far right corner while/right before printing air, the X/Y motors were pulling more power(clearly hear that and my UPS shows more power being used) and the extrusion motors were basically stalling (not grinding).

As far as I can tell, with the cover on, the cable guide (chain link), is running out of room (Running in the cover) when in the far corner causing the X/Y motors to draw more power. The issue in the near right corner only happens if printing from far right to near right. Coming from near left to near right, there is no problem. (Coming from Far right to near right, the motors have to pull harder..)

To be clear: while printing the raft, I can repeat this every time. Just put the hood on, print air in the corners, take hood off, no air print.

I hope you guys can fix this with a software update?? I really need to be able to print on the whole plate..


May I have a picture of your print failure in corners? Or a picture of large size print but can show print issue at corners?

Ronvp
Posts: 52
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:07 pm

Re: Filament Stepper Motors very hot - even when not printing with nozzle

Postby Ronvp » Wed Sep 26, 2018 10:28 pm

Vicky@Raise3D wrote:May I have a picture of your print failure in corners? Or a picture of large size print but can show print issue at corners?


I have done more testing. It only happens on my Right extruder motor. Printing in the same location with the left extruder it is all good(Same settings, Same roll of filament..). I have started my print doing it with the left extruder.. So I will try to send a pic after this is done.. (58 hour print job)..

I note that when I look at the extruder teeth while loading, (force adjuster open), there is only intermittent movement.. I took the motor cover of and rotated it by hand and checked the bearing.. it all looks good. Maybe my Right Motor is bad it has been running reeeeealy hot..

E3printable
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Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:26 am

Re: Filament Stepper Motors very hot - even when not printing with nozzle

Postby E3printable » Thu Sep 27, 2018 7:25 am

Vicky@Raise3D wrote:
E3printable wrote:
Vicky@Raise3D wrote:Does it mean that you also have extrusion issue with our premium PLA? If so, please try to make contact with us from http://help.raise3d.com.


Vicky, with all due respect, my customers does not buy this machine to play around with PLA. Not yours, not others. They buy this machine because it is a closed up machine, marketed for ABS, Nylons, business printing. Not printing trinkets from Thingiverse. So please stop asking the same questions over and over, and start listening to what we, the resellers, and our customers are saying:

1.The stepper motors get WAAAAY to hot, the gears get so hot they deform the filament, and it gets stuck.
2. Printing with the lid on is just a dream so far, as it WILL fail after a few hours due to the extreme heat from the steppers, in combination with the heatbed, nozzle, and lack of cooling of the nozzle.
3. Heatcreep is a real problem, not a user error. The biggest problem here is the total blocking of the airsteam in the back of the hotend, blocked by the servo for the head lifting.

So PLEASE start working on the issues instead of trying to place blame everywhere else but the machine. Issue a quick update NOW to limit current to the steppermotors, speed up the fan in the back, and stop blaming everything else.

-Even Andersen
E3printable.no


We are asking the print result of our PLA is only because that we are more familiar with the print result with our PLA as we have run thousands of tests with it. And it is normally the easiest filament customer can get to run a test, as there are two spools coming together with the printer. Based on the print result, we can try to help diagnose the issue. As I mentioned before, we do have some cases being fixed by replacing hotend. I'm afraid some users are facing with hardware issues which may can be fixed by replacing parts. We are willing to help and provide warranty parts, but we need to diagnose the issue.
And we are working on a solution for firmware and software to add motor current control to reduce the affect of the heat from motor based on the feedbacks from customers.
Besides hotend, heat from motor, cooling, extruder tension, print settings, if you have any other idea, we are open to see more different opinions on this issue.
And it's also the reason why we are asking the filament information which are causing print failure to see whether we can get a chance to run some tests from our side to see whether we can find solutions for those filaments.


Hi again Vicky.
I totally understand your approach, and I respect that you need to diagnose the problems. This is after all the correct way to go. And I did not mean to come of wrong in my last post, because when I re-read it it sounds like the machine is not good. It is an awesome machine when it comes to print quality. I have yet to see such precise prints from others.
My consern is what to tell customers and others when weeks and months go by without an upgrade to fix the overheating steppers. Just this simple little fix will help a huge deal on making the machine more stable as proven by all those who have cooled their steppers and achieved great results.
If so be, you can contact me in private and I am willing to help testing solutions on my own unit so as not to risk customers units with a mass update. Just putting it out there... :)
Keep on doing what you do best: creating the most awesome printers!

Sincerely
Even Andersen
E3printable.no

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Vicky@Raise3D
Posts: 4549
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 3:54 am

Re: Filament Stepper Motors very hot - even when not printing with nozzle

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Thu Sep 27, 2018 7:08 pm

E3printable wrote:
Vicky@Raise3D wrote:
E3printable wrote:
Vicky, with all due respect, my customers does not buy this machine to play around with PLA. Not yours, not others. They buy this machine because it is a closed up machine, marketed for ABS, Nylons, business printing. Not printing trinkets from Thingiverse. So please stop asking the same questions over and over, and start listening to what we, the resellers, and our customers are saying:

1.The stepper motors get WAAAAY to hot, the gears get so hot they deform the filament, and it gets stuck.
2. Printing with the lid on is just a dream so far, as it WILL fail after a few hours due to the extreme heat from the steppers, in combination with the heatbed, nozzle, and lack of cooling of the nozzle.
3. Heatcreep is a real problem, not a user error. The biggest problem here is the total blocking of the airsteam in the back of the hotend, blocked by the servo for the head lifting.

So PLEASE start working on the issues instead of trying to place blame everywhere else but the machine. Issue a quick update NOW to limit current to the steppermotors, speed up the fan in the back, and stop blaming everything else.

-Even Andersen
E3printable.no


We are asking the print result of our PLA is only because that we are more familiar with the print result with our PLA as we have run thousands of tests with it. And it is normally the easiest filament customer can get to run a test, as there are two spools coming together with the printer. Based on the print result, we can try to help diagnose the issue. As I mentioned before, we do have some cases being fixed by replacing hotend. I'm afraid some users are facing with hardware issues which may can be fixed by replacing parts. We are willing to help and provide warranty parts, but we need to diagnose the issue.
And we are working on a solution for firmware and software to add motor current control to reduce the affect of the heat from motor based on the feedbacks from customers.
Besides hotend, heat from motor, cooling, extruder tension, print settings, if you have any other idea, we are open to see more different opinions on this issue.
And it's also the reason why we are asking the filament information which are causing print failure to see whether we can get a chance to run some tests from our side to see whether we can find solutions for those filaments.


Hi again Vicky.
I totally understand your approach, and I respect that you need to diagnose the problems. This is after all the correct way to go. And I did not mean to come of wrong in my last post, because when I re-read it it sounds like the machine is not good. It is an awesome machine when it comes to print quality. I have yet to see such precise prints from others.
My consern is what to tell customers and others when weeks and months go by without an upgrade to fix the overheating steppers. Just this simple little fix will help a huge deal on making the machine more stable as proven by all those who have cooled their steppers and achieved great results.
If so be, you can contact me in private and I am willing to help testing solutions on my own unit so as not to risk customers units with a mass update. Just putting it out there... :)
Keep on doing what you do best: creating the most awesome printers!

Sincerely
Even Andersen
E3printable.no


Thanks for your kindly understand and willing to help.
We are still working on the solution, as it may need not only works on motion controller board firmware, RaiseTouch and possibly ideaMaker as well.
If we are approaching the solution or have any plan open for beta test for users, will try to ask your for help. Thanks in advance!

Ronvp
Posts: 52
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:07 pm

Re: Filament Stepper Motors very hot - even when not printing with nozzle

Postby Ronvp » Sun Sep 30, 2018 2:50 pm

So, below is link to a little video I made. In a previous post, I made a comment that my right extruder motor was stalling. It happens when the wire harness (inside the plastic chain guide) was being stressed in a certain way, especially when printing in the far right corner.

Have look...it causes random air printing..

https://1drv.ms/v/s!Ai9KRqBCk_CSp_kWjjMRTBgXdzUhww

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Vicky@Raise3D
Posts: 4549
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 3:54 am

Re: Filament Stepper Motors very hot - even when not printing with nozzle

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:42 pm

Ronvp wrote:So, below is link to a little video I made. In a previous post, I made a comment that my right extruder motor was stalling. It happens when the wire harness (inside the plastic chain guide) was being stressed in a certain way, especially when printing in the far right corner.

Have look...it causes random air printing..

https://1drv.ms/v/s!Ai9KRqBCk_CSp_kWjjMRTBgXdzUhww


If the issue can be recreated by moving cable chain, the issue will be highly likely related to motor cable which has some parts inserted inside cable chain.
Please try to make contact with us from http://help.raise3d.com.

KS_Husker
Posts: 105
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2018 2:32 am

Re: Filament Stepper Motors very hot - even when not printing with nozzle

Postby KS_Husker » Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:43 pm

SchMax, how did you get power to the pins where the plug goes to the circuit board for the added motor?

Also, do you know if the pins above the ones you are using can be used for a fan on the other motor as well?

SchMax
Posts: 33
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2018 2:02 pm

Re: Filament Stepper Motors very hot - even when not printing with nozzle

Postby SchMax » Mon Oct 15, 2018 5:20 am

you can see it in the pictures how it should be connected.
i just pluged it in, an it worked!

i don't know know, but i guess so..?
Raise3D Pro2
Flashforge Finder


3D Printing of Architecture Models

froth
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2018 5:18 pm

Re: Filament Stepper Motors very hot - even when not printing with nozzle

Postby froth » Sun Oct 21, 2018 3:14 pm

I ve started to experience the same issue. Actually I Cant print anytyhing, even without the lid. All the time printing in the air but without any jam! Stepper motors do clicking noise and nothing happens. WHen I stop the print, I can manually push the filament and it goes though nozzle freely.
This topic is almost from 2 months! do we have any solution for it right now?
what are you doing so long...

CV-Gate
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2018 9:28 pm

Re: Filament Stepper Motors very hot - even when not printing with nozzle

Postby CV-Gate » Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:44 pm

Any news about this @Vicky? I'm currently printing with a 0.6 nozzle only. It's the only way to make this thing work for more than 3 hours.

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 3:54 am

Re: Filament Stepper Motors very hot - even when not printing with nozzle

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:06 pm

We have released new RaiseTouch. If you meet issue with overheating extruder motor cause filament get soft around feeding gear, you can choose loose current mode under Advanced Settings in touchscreen.


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