Higher extruder temperatures - above 300C for Ultem.

charles@linquist.net
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Joined: Fri May 27, 2016 11:45 pm

Higher extruder temperatures - above 300C for Ultem.

Postby charles@linquist.net » Fri Sep 14, 2018 5:54 pm

My N2 specs say that the maximum extruder temperature is 300C. I normally print at 225-250C, so that hasn't been a problem. However, I have seen some filaments that need to be printed at more than 300C (Ultem, for example).

My question is - what is the limiting factor in the current N2 hot end? Is it heater power? Is it some material in the nozzle, is it software?

I can put more power into the heater, if necessary, (by using a higher-powered element or raising the voltage fed to it) but what problem will I run into first? I haven't tried it, but will the software let me set a higher nozzle temperature, say 350C?

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Higher extruder temperatures - above 300C for Ultem.

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Sat Sep 15, 2018 1:10 am

Based on my experience, (maybe there has some material I'm not really familiar with), normally the material needs really high nozzle temperature has high shrinkage rate. Which is not possible to be handle well with the current only heated bed which can only reach to about 100C in N series printer but without any other heating elements for heat chamber.

charles@linquist.net
Posts: 25
Joined: Fri May 27, 2016 11:45 pm

Re: Higher extruder temperatures - above 300C for Ultem.

Postby charles@linquist.net » Sat Sep 15, 2018 2:15 am

I can heat the bed to well over 100C. I use a separate 30V / 400W power supply to run the bed. I built a FET switch that uses the 'ordinary' signal from the controller to turn the FET on and off. I could have used a relay, but that would be too noisy.

The reason I added the extra power supply is that my bed took too long to heat. Now, it heats up in 4 minutes. It has been running great for over a year that way.

But I would have to check if the materials used could handle the heat. Now, the hottest I have run it is 110C. But it could certainly get much hotter. Normally the heated bed consumes about 190W. Mine consumes 360W, so if the materials could handle it, I should be able to get it to at least 180C.

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Vicky@Raise3D
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Re: Higher extruder temperatures - above 300C for Ultem.

Postby Vicky@Raise3D » Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:48 pm

I can't give a lot suggestion about what can be achieved by modification, as it is not officially support. But as far as I known, we set limitation for nozzles temperature and bed temperature.
And even your bed can reach to over 100C, the temperature of your chamber is still low, normally around 60-70C, which may still cannot solve the shrinkage issue unless your model is with real small size.

Evan
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Re: Higher extruder temperatures - above 300C for Ultem.

Postby Evan » Tue Sep 18, 2018 4:01 pm

Ultem prints at 325/330C with 175C heated bed. If you can get your hardware up to those temperatures then in theory you should be able to print with it. I can't provide any more details than that so proceed at your own risk.

charles@linquist.net
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Joined: Fri May 27, 2016 11:45 pm

Re: Higher extruder temperatures - above 300C for Ultem.

Postby charles@linquist.net » Sun Sep 23, 2018 5:39 pm

I asked RAISE for information on any information they had on what would be the limiting factors in raising the extruder temperature. Rather than checking for me, they claimed they couldn't due to "safety issues". I told them that my modifications of the machine (I have already made many) would absolve them of any liability. But they apparently didn't want to take the time to ask someone who might know.
I can put a higher-wattage heater in the extruder and make certain the control board can handle the extra current.
I can put a larger heatsink on the extruder tube to keep it cool to prevent the filament from melting too far up in that tube.

I can get the chamber hotter than 60 or 70C, but I worry about the extruder stepper. Normally, steppers are rated at 50C ambient max and 85C internal. I already have added a heatsink to the stepper and a separate fan for cooling.
I even changed the stepper to a bigger one (still NEMA 17 - from Lulzbot) and I get a lot more torque - even though I didn't change the driver.
Yes, it weighs a bit more, but I didn't have to slow down the printer. It just works better.

Evan
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Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2016 3:07 pm

Re: Higher extruder temperatures - above 300C for Ultem.

Postby Evan » Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:00 pm

I can show you what I did with my N2+ as reference, but I also understand where R3D is coming from. Taking the machine beyond its intended limit is possible, but any support they give you is only going to encourage others from doing the same thing and I think that's where safety becomes a big concern.

charles@linquist.net
Posts: 25
Joined: Fri May 27, 2016 11:45 pm

Re: Higher extruder temperatures - above 300C for Ultem.

Postby charles@linquist.net » Sun Sep 23, 2018 11:21 pm

Yes, I would like to know what you did. I want to be able to handle higher temperature filaments.

charles@linquist.net
Posts: 25
Joined: Fri May 27, 2016 11:45 pm

Re: Higher extruder temperatures - above 300C for Ultem.

Postby charles@linquist.net » Sun Sep 23, 2018 11:22 pm

You can just send me an email to my login address.

Evan
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Re: Higher extruder temperatures - above 300C for Ultem.

Postby Evan » Mon Sep 24, 2018 4:47 am

I'll take pictures this week of my setup and send them to you


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